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  #71  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:11 AM
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AndyRV7 AndyRV7 is offline
 
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Funny I saw this today. I wish you luck!!

I saw a video on youtube last night that was a guy hand building a radial, 7 cylinder airplane engine. It was made using VW cylinders machined to suit the project. Many other parts were machined in-shop. I say it was an airplane engine because when it was started for the 1st time in the video it had a small wood prop on it. The video was from around 2013 for some reason. There weren't many videos on the channel and no more current update videos of the engine, but it was very impressive.
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  #72  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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There are a few Radials on the market.

The East Europe M14 is a bit of a monster (too much for RV's) at 360HP. You can buy them new but expensive. Engine from Czechoslovakia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedeneyev_M14P

The Rotec (not Rotax) Radial (about 150 HP) from Australia, has developed a reputation (not good see YouTube Videos). There is an RV-8 from Spruce Creek FL flying around. Did a great job with custom round cowl, but admits to lots of extra work/time and a slower plane (in part due to lower HP and no doubt cooling drag). Engine from Australia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlPtMVijIzs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIjh4o9QjtY

Verner makes small radials up to 110 HP. Seen some on ultralight or LSA. Engine from Romania
https://www.experimentalaircraft.inf...ft-engines.php

http://vernermotor.com/

Jacob R-755 is 225 HP to 300HP and 500 lbs...is one of the smaller (not light) radials I can think of besides the Warners
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobs_R-755

"Warner (Scarab) 185 radial engine for the experimental airplane market was announced to be in production again.. [Original] Warner 185 rated at 200 hp for takeoff and 185 hp constant at just 2175 rpm, weight 344lbs. Engines will use today’s modern technology, better materials, higher compression and fuel octane, fuel injection and electronic ignition... Production is expected to begin in the fall of 2017, after AirVenture." (Ref Source Kit Plane 2016, status?)
http://www.warnerenginecompany.com/A...erEngines.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Scarab


Making 200HP with such a light weight would be a feat.... Radials are cool for vintage restoration and replicas, RV's not so much. C-190/195 with a Jacob would be cool.

The VW based radial is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyRJeZ6s8uM. This is a one off engine for display I guess. You are better off with a VW engine Horz opposed 4 cyl as has been done for decades, or if Corvair Engines are you thing, they have current popularity in the smaller Zenair and Sonex planes (www.flycorvair.com)
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 10-08-2019 at 11:41 AM.
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  #73  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:57 PM
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"....There are a few Radials on the market.

Verner makes small radials up to 110 HP. Seen some on ultralight or LSA. Engine from Romania
https://www.experimentalaircraft.inf...ft-engines.php

http://vernermotor.com/
..."

Acutally Verner is from the Czech republic, and they make motors up to 150HP.
Here is a great video by a satisfied customer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTd3MwGnuc
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  #74  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amit View Post
"Here is a great video by a satisfied customer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTd3MwGnuc
Thanks for posting that Verner link. Beautiful plane, install and engine. Just want something of my own... maybe a few others will too.

Last edited by Roarks : 10-08-2019 at 11:13 PM.
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  #75  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:22 AM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarks View Post
Thanks for posting that Verner link. Beautiful plane, install and engine. Just want something of my own... maybe a few others will too.
Cool custom replica. Get building. Verner 9S is new... cool radal, 158HP and $27,000, and far better than the rotec in my opinion... The Samson replica is based on a Pitts S1. It's a serious project but looks doable. The link below is a great overview of all Verner engines including the 158HP 9 cylinder at $27,000 new, and how to buy (2 USA dealers). Bargain.

https://youtu.be/VNq5QAAR5_I
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 10-09-2019 at 10:18 AM.
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  #76  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot View Post
I'm aiming for half that.
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  #77  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:21 AM
meloosifah meloosifah is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarks View Post

That said... with the lifters... My "nose" is needing some internal passageways for the hydraulic lifters. It's looking to be one of the only castings I need unless I can think my way out of it. I'm very interested in shops that are willing to do low rate projects. There is 1 place here in town that has done pretty good work for me using 3d printed wax investment casting, but they are limited in size.

You have any good design pointers for how to go about a traditional sand casting with internal passageways?
If you have any sort of drawing or schematic, I would be happy to take it to a couple of my foundry guys and see what they think. Sandcasting is going to be the least expensive option, utilizing a job shop, I would think. Do you have a specific alloy that you’re wanting to work with? The metal utilized narrows the options on which foundry can be used.
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  #78  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:39 AM
Aviacs Aviacs is offline
 
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[quote]If you have any sort of drawing or schematic, I would be happy to take it to a couple of my foundry guys and see what they think. Sandcasting is going to be the least expensive option,[/quote[

Hmmmm....

Traditional wood/composite pattern on a match plate? Loose split patterns? Are you thinking green/petrobond sand, or no-bake?

Depending on number and contours, the core boxes will be the "interesting" components. Do you know any foundries that still paste up cores, or will shell core boxes be necessary?

If the foundry knows ahead of time that there will only ever be -one- cast, the rigging development and charges might be costed to his invoice.

One only, I'd figure a design that allowed machining it. Even if that required some assembly as opposed to en-bloc construction of the component.

Not naysaying, i really like pattern/foundry work. But it does not sound like the inexpensive way for one-only. Keep in mind, the casting still needs heat treating and machining, possibly twice. If the OP already had extensive pattern experience and has worked with foundries before, then go for it.
You can call your labor for the tooling (pattern & core boxes) "free" and maybe the foundry will apply the rigging at no or low cost if they are impressed with your pattern and matchplate work & find the project interesting. Good luck with it.

smt
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  #79  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:02 AM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarks View Post
I'm aiming for half that.
Good luck. Keep us informed on your progress. However a scratched built 200HP radial for $14,000 is an aggressive goal. The Verner 9s uses magnesium and titanium to keep weight down and is a bargan at the price of a Lycoming.

If your goal is to fly of course purchase an engine (Lycoming). If your goal is develop an engine then go for it. However you will not save money. Many have tried and spent decades doing it.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 10-11-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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  #80  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:17 AM
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Roarks Roarks is offline
 
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Right now I don't have the nose fully defined. I'm still waiting on my 3D scans to make sure I position things in the right place... mainly the angle of the pushrods, so the pushrod covers are not anything exotic into the head. Right now the position of the entire lifter assembly, thus cam gear train fore-aft is not defined yet.

I've actually done a lot of 3D printed wax/investment castings.
Prices are pretty reasonable all things considered. I've even run low production of 50 parts using 3D printed cores. I would imagine this "nose case" would be in the $1500 range based on it's size finished.

As far as alloy, I'm assuming I can get away with typical A356.0 It's temper temp is well above max oil temp. Thoughts?

I'm really not familiar with traditional sand cast. Most everything I've done professionally... thus my contacts are investment castings.

One thought on keeping it machined would be to have the oil "ring" that supplies the lifters be on the mating face. It would put about 780 pounds of force on the mounting hardware which isnt much... after all that hardware is literally pulling the airplane through the sky, but I'm concerned about asking a gasket to do that. It's well within the scope of a product I like called threebond 1215... but I don't know how I feel about doing that, reminds me of a water pump gasket on a car... and that still leaves the main nose bearing dry. Looking at a lot of turbines... PT6 is coming to mind, I'm not opposed to external oil lines, but then that's fittings and lines and makes things not clean on the outside.

I really enjoyed the verner engine video... after watching that I'm very tempted make the "nose" casting do as many things as I can. oil filter, oil pump... so on.

Last edited by Roarks : 10-11-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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