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RV-10 proposed project

imrah6

Member
Hi,

I am, after many years wishing and hoping, going to build an RV-10 within the next couple of years, maybe 3.

The build start is pending moving, but an 'on-site' workshop is one of the requrements for the new abode so you can see that it's a serious plan.

The only things I have built before are a couple of RC planes, a habit as a kid of dissassembling a reassembling anything new (mechanical cars, planes, watches, professional multi-track records) to see how they work and rebuilt a few cars. Also spent a short while as an apprentice motor mechanic, rebuilt a couple of cars and motorcycles, and a few years as an electronic technician (although my primary career has been computer technology).

I'm not intimidated by the project, or the skills, but I am intimidated about making the right decisions for the 'optional' equipment.

I want to have a good cross-country VFR airplane.

With that in mind, I don't want to make the mistake of purchasing the wrong autopilot and / or glass cockpit, or purchasing the right one at the wrong time (too late, for example, to install servos).

So...I am starting the process of looking for advice. Where is a good place to find recommendations, warnings and general information in this regard ?

Vendor's information is always seductive (for example I am impressed with Dynon), but not always the most cost effective.

If you have suggestions or information of any kind, I'd appreciate all.
 
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The best recommendation is to wait until the very last moment to even think about avionics. The market is very dynamic and this year's hot product may be obsolete, outdated, and out of production in a couple of years.

Navworx comes to mind as an example of this.
 
The most common problem I have seen people make is buying auto pilot servos during the build, only to change their mind about final panel equipment and having servos they can?t use. The auto pilot servos are just as easy to install after the plane is finished as during the build on most models. I wouldn?t even think anything about Avionics until the airframe is almost completed if not fully completed and Engine hung.
 
Recommendations

"...I am not afraid.." ~ L. Skywalker

"...You will be..." ~ Yoda

Seriously, though. The RV-10 is a LARGE project...don't underestimate the size or the cost of it.

Don't worry about Avionics until the end.

Most important: Your significant other MUST be onboard with the project from the beginning.

Give all of your attention to your new mistress (RV-10) and you may well find you won't need those extra seats.
 
Don't wait!

If you're planning on starting in 2-3 years, avionics are indeed the last thing you'll need to be thinking about. Why wait for a move? I started my build in my garage/carport in Long Beach CA before moving the completed airframe to Chicago to finish. Lotsa other folks have basement workshops - Vlad built most of his in a Manhattan apartment! If you really want to do this, just do it :)
 
Most important: Your significant other MUST be onboard with the project from the beginning.

And.... don't let this be a one conversation and 'ok'. Talk about it over months/years. Your definition of the time it will take and her understanding of that may differ.
 
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Spousal Approval

Buy-in from the better half is indeed critical. Here's one angle from a prospective builder who was recently married...
Him - I've always wanted to build my own plane, I think an RV-8 would be fantastic!
Her - If you're going to spend all that time and money, the plane better have room for kids. You want kids don't you?
Him - Of course I want kids. I'll build an RV-10 with 4 seats, the whole family will have wonderful adventures...
Her - That sounds like a better idea.
Him - I'LL TAKE IT! er I mean, OK, I'll give up on my dream of my own personal fighter and build a family station wagon instead, just for you dear.
Her - Good, I'm glad you're such a great husband :p

8 yrs and 2 kids later - mission accomplished, marriage intact, wonderful adventures in progress.
 
Robert,

Welcome to the RV-10 building experience. All of the above suggestions are good, particularly regarding not making an avionics decision now. I did however make the decision during my build between avionics brands (I decided on Garmin G3X) and then installed the auto pilot servo mounting brackets in the wing and tail cone before closing them up. My thinking was that I wasn't spending much for the mounting brackets (except it turned out for the yaw servo) and installing them before closing up the wing and the tail cone made the install easier. But I waiting to buy the actual servos until later (purchased along with the rest of my avionics) so that I didn't end up with obsolete servos.

Since I don't see any sheet metal work in your resume above, I would suggest you take a class to help you get started. One good option for this is the EAA Sport Air workshops, either the sheet metal basics workshop or the Van's RV Assembly workshop. Another great option is the Synergy Air Empennage workshop, which I took a couple of years ago in Eugene, Oregon. At their workshop you actually build your tail assemblies under the guidance of their experienced instructors, and leave the workshop with lots of experience with a variety of different tools as well as completed HS, VS, Rudder, Elevator, and elevator trim tabs. This really gets you off to a great start.

Hope you enjoy the RV building journey.
 
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for (as I don't know at this stage where the servos are installed).

Having been in the tech business all my life I understand the rapid changes and the typically declining price points so I regularly remind myself that almost everything tech gets cheaper...
 
Thanks for the lengthy reply.

That course in Eugene sounds like a good idea. I'll look it up.

I was close to starting a couple of years ago and booked for a sport air workshop and then missed it at the last minute.

Are the servo brackets normally built into the wing then, or is that just due to the Garmin selection you made ?

I am hoping, after moving, to be able to work on my project as a 'full time's occupation which I am also hoping will result in a quicker build time (immersion ratherather than intermittent).
 
I know a few people that planned just about everything out in advance for the -10 build. Honestly that's not necessary and you don't have to really make any modification decisions until you complete / almost complete the tailcone.

Taking one of the EAA SportAir workshops, or even go to Sun N Fun or Oshkosh and visit the different hands-on classes. Then buy a practice kit and some basic tools and make sure you enjoy working with sheet metal.

Be honest with your budget and working space. How much time and money can you commit to the project. As others have said, make sure your family is completely on-board / supportive.

Lastly, are you personally able to commit and see the project through. It's a lot of work but at the end you'll have an amazing airplane.

Best of luck!
 
Are the servo brackets normally built into the wing then, or is that just due to the Garmin selection you made ?

Servo brackets are pretty generic. Meaning, you can install Dynon brackets and they'll likely work with Garmin or other brand servos (at least today).
 
Are the servo brackets normally built into the wing then, or is that just due to the Garmin selection you made ?

I am hoping, after moving, to be able to work on my project as a 'full time's occupation which I am also hoping will result in a quicker build time (immersion ratherather than intermittent).

The roll servo is installed in the right wing per Garmin. I can't speak to any other brands as I'm using Garmin. Note that with Garmin, the trim servo is driven through the Auto Pilot servo (for airspeed proportional control of the trim speed), so even though the Van's plans call for the aileron trim servo to be installed in the left wing, it can easily be installed in the right wing so you don't have to run the trim wires from the right wing to the left.

The pitch and yaw servos are mounted in the tail cone next to the elevator bell crank, just behind the baggage bulkhead.

I waited until retirement to start my RV-10 build, and made it my replacement job, working about 30-40 hrs/week. This definitely made the build quicker in calendar time, at least until I injured my heel with a resulting 3 surgeries and 7 months+ of not working on the build. I was on a pace to make first flight in about 24 months after starting until the injury. That was building mostly by myself, with QB wings and fuselage, but with a few non-standard additions, the most time consuming being installation of an air conditioning system.

Cheers,
 
Buy-in from the better half is indeed critical. Here's one angle from a prospective builder who was recently married...
Him - I've always wanted to build my own plane, I think an RV-8 would be fantastic!
Her - If you're going to spend all that time and money, the plane better have room for kids. You want kids don't you?
Him - Of course I want kids. I'll build an RV-10 with 4 seats, the whole family will have wonderful adventures...
Her - That sounds like a better idea.
Him - I'LL TAKE IT! er I mean, OK, I'll give up on my dream of my own personal fighter and build a family station wagon instead, just for you dear.
Her - Good, I'm glad you're such a great husband :p

8 yrs and 2 kids later - mission accomplished, marriage intact, wonderful adventures in progress.

Pretty much same story.

Positive pregnancy test....give up the Harmon Rocket plans,.....order Rv-10 kit.....Flying in 22 months....1 week after 1st flight, 2nd child is here, as of yesterday 1485 hrs on it taking family all over the place. Go for it , you da man!
 
Very cool stories.

We are beyond the "kid" stage, but there are 2 grands and I am sure a few more coming.

The RV-10 provides great cross country capability and the ability to take grands and their parents for rides....
 
I waited until retirement to start my RV-10 build, and made it my replacement job, working about 30-40 hrs/week. This definitely made the build quicker in calendar time, at least until I injured my heel with a resulting 3 surgeries and 7 months+ of not working on the build. I was on a pace to make first flight in about 24 months after starting until the injury. That was building mostly by myself, with QB wings and fuselage, but with a few non-standard additions, the most time consuming being installation of an air conditioning system.

Cheers,
This is basically me. I am "semi" retired and we are moving to TN at which point I will be fully retired. Apart from continuing with classical piano (almost 5 years in at this point) and playing in a band / recording, my only real occupation is to build. If I apportion my time properly I think I can do 5 to 6 hours a day 5 days a week.

The weekends I intend to break off to avoid unnecessary stress in the home. Everyone needs a break.

I was figuring 18 to 24 months but that's goal and not a requirement.
 
I started my 10 project about 11 years ago and there honestly is surprisingly little I would do differently today. Actually, the primary one would be that I would have a lot more of the exposed surfaces of the inside of the fuselage powder coated prior to final assembly.

Yes avionics tech changes, but with the top tier companies, by design, new tech integrates in with basically plug and play simplicity. The core network concept itself doesn’t change, so you really don’t have to fear getting left behind if you stick with one of the established brands

Run lots of extra wires. I ran 8 extra wires of varying gauges from front to rear and have already incorporated 6 of them. I ran two extra in each wing as well.

The biggest decision I made was adding A/C which is a much bigger project than anticipated and adds a lot of build time, but the reward has been worth it and I would do it again.

All airplanes are a compromise and my next build will not be a ten, but I am pleased as punch that my first one was. It is a marvelous machine.
 
Make sure you have about $150,000 at your disposal to order parts!:eek:


From my reading that's somewhere near the top end, but yes, I am figuring to do what scrounging I can and get a low time rather than new and try to keep my build closer to 120. I have no problem doing avionics and wiring as my second employment was electronics tech, after a short stint as motor mechanic.

Yep, I know it's going to be a lot more difficult but I've been planning on this since 1995 (my first trip to oshkosh).

As Freddie mercury said, don't stop me now 😁
 
If you're planning on starting in 2-3 years, avionics are indeed the last thing you'll need to be thinking about. Why wait for a move? I started my build in my garage/carport in Long Beach CA before moving the completed airframe to Chicago to finish. Lotsa other folks have basement workshops - Vlad built most of his in a Manhattan apartment! If you really want to do this, just do it :)

We are in the middle of selling and moving. Hope to be done by mid 2019 and then will order right away. I don't want to have to move a part built airplane when I can avoid it by being patient for 6 to 8 months.
 
150k is NOT at the top end, it is closer to the bottom for a ten...

In which case I may have to rebudget. That was the last "expect to spend" price I had seen.

I think I got that number off an estimator somewhere, come to think of it...I thought it was on vans web site but I don't see it there now.

Thanks for the warning.
 
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Get the flash drive plans:

USB Flash Drive PLANS/MANUAL RV-10
Part Number = FD PLANS RV-10
Price = $10.00

Also, and while it's included, you can just go to the Van's service notes/revisions page and download it right now, study Chapter 5. It contains much of the basics and how-to information.

Dave
 
No worries

I thought $150k was my number when I started 5.5 years ago...I am going to be in the $175-$200 range when I am done...
 
Cost creep

At the beginning I was budgeting 125k. I ended up at 150k. I have a overhauled engine and I found some previously owned avionics and such. 120k would be difficult for a comfortable XC IFR cruiser.
 
At the beginning I was budgeting 125k. I ended up at 150k. I have a overhauled engine and I found some previously owned avionics and such. 120k would be difficult for a comfortable XC IFR cruiser.

I'm going to come in at $150k, painted.

The only way I saw to end up at $120k was to find a good 540 core and rebuild it myself to save $20k or more. Additionally, I'd have had to leave the airplane unpainted and leave out the IFR navigator.
 
I'm going to come in at $150k, painted.

The only way I saw to end up at $120k was to find a good 540 core and rebuild it myself to save $20k or more. Additionally, I'd have had to leave the airplane unpainted and leave out the IFR navigator.

My plan was to build a good XC VFR plane. I just don't think I am going to be flying IFR (except unexpectedly).

Professional paint is a requirement for me. It's one thing to build it in my basement / barn / garage, it's another thing if it looks like I built it in my basement / barn / garage :)
 
Get the flash drive plans:

USB Flash Drive PLANS/MANUAL RV-10
Part Number = FD PLANS RV-10
Price = $10.00

Also, and while it's included, you can just go to the Van's service notes/revisions page and download it right now, study Chapter 5. It contains much of the basics and how-to information.

Dave

Thanks, I will do that..
 
My plan was to build a good XC VFR plane. I just don't think I am going to be flying IFR (except unexpectedly).

Professional paint is a requirement for me. It's one thing to build it in my basement / barn / garage, it's another thing if it looks like I built it in my basement / barn / garage :)

Leaving out the IFR navigator (a Garmin 625) only saves about $4500, maybe $5k considering you're going to need a WAAS GPS to run your ADS-B.
 
My plan was to build a good XC VFR plane. I just don't think I am going to be flying IFR (except unexpectedly).
SNIP

Not flying the RV-10 IFR drastically limits its cross country capability. This plane is a dream to fly - VFR and IFR.

I did a slow build, new engine and prop from Van?s, dual screen SkyView, GTN-650, some mods and all the bells and whistles. I painted it myself. Total cost was $152K.

Carl
 
The nice thing is that the market is strong and the RV10 attracts a lot of spam can owners who will never build and don?t want a sport plane per se, just another competitive option to a Bonanza, Mooney, Cirrus, etc.
A well built example that is smartly and traditionally equipped should command significantly more than the cost to build which for a Kitplane is remarkable. I?ve seen 10?s built for 100k and a couple for nearly 500k. Don?t go crazy or exotic on the build and you?ll do fine if you have to sell.
 
The nice thing is that the market is strong and the RV10 attracts a lot of spam can owners who will never build and don?t want a sport plane per se, just another competitive option to a Bonanza, Mooney, Cirrus, etc.
A well built example that is smartly and traditionally equipped should command significantly more than the cost to build which for a Kitplane is remarkable. I?ve seen 10?s built for 100k and a couple for nearly 500k. Don?t go crazy or exotic on the build and you?ll do fine if you have to sell.

This was also a consideration for me. I did actually buy RV-7 preview plans a few years ago intending to build the 7. I did not see a lot of "resale" value in it and, added to the fact that I would have preferred a 4 seater anyway, I decided to switch to the 10 (having also looked at the few 4 seat composites out there).

My hope was / is to be able to build the 10 for somewhere below $150K and then, should I sell it, be able to realize $50k - $70k over what it cost me. I think that's not an unreasonable return on my time, if I do a decent job of the build. As far as I have been able to determine, the RV-10 is about the only kit plane you can hope to do this with.

Of course, the primary goal is to fly :) But life has a habit of throwing things in the way of the best laid plans, so having something with some resale value is better than not.

I think I have an advantage over some builders - I am NOT an engineer. This basically means I can save a lot of time and money not trying to design in my own "improvements"...:)
 
Not flying the RV-10 IFR drastically limits its cross country capability. This plane is a dream to fly - VFR and IFR.

I did a slow build, new engine and prop from Van’s, dual screen SkyView, GTN-650, some mods and all the bells and whistles. I painted it myself. Total cost was $152K.

Carl

Yeah, I understand that. I can upgrade both my skills, and the plane, as necessary should I get to "needing" to fly IFR :)

I will be doing a slow build. I will have the time and it doesn't matter to me if it takes a little longer.
 
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How are you guys hitting $200k? I've been planning out a slow build and even with a full IFR panel and a new engine/prop it's looking to be right at or under $150k, even with a $10k fudge factor in the budget. Dial it back with a mid-time used engine and some used equipment (430W for example) and it's still an IFR machine at ~$115k. I plan on doing everything myself though, including paint and panel wiring and using Dynon instead of Garmin.

And making it a VFR bird using some of the instruments I have laying around and a mid-time engine puts it under $100k.

Surprisingly the -10 is roughly $20k more than the -14A to build. But it also runs about $15-20/hr more to operate.
 
How are you guys hitting $200k? I've been planning out a slow build and even with a full IFR panel and a new engine/prop it's looking to be right at or under $150k, even with a $10k fudge factor in the budget. Dial it back with a mid-time used engine and some used equipment (430W for example) and it's still an IFR machine at ~$115k. I plan on doing everything myself though, including paint and panel wiring and using Dynon instead of Garmin.

And making it a VFR bird using some of the instruments I have laying around and a mid-time engine puts it under $100k.

Surprisingly the -10 is roughly $20k more than the -14A to build. But it also runs about $15-20/hr more to operate.

That's good to hear :)

I haven't finished budgeting but it sounds like you are where I am at (except for the self-painting which I've had a quote for $6K from an aircraft painter friend although I expect that to come in higher).

I was figuring on a 10% contingency which would put me close to where you are but I am not figuring on the IFR as I think I can do that as an upgrade if I ever get IFR rated.
 
That's good to hear :)

I haven't finished budgeting but it sounds like you are where I am at (except for the self-painting which I've had a quote for $6K from an aircraft painter friend although I expect that to come in higher).

I was figuring on a 10% contingency which would put me close to where you are but I am not figuring on the IFR as I think I can do that as an upgrade if I ever get IFR rated.

I'm looking to build a decent IFR-capable machine with an AOA and AP. The current plan would be to build it as a VFR with a single skyview and upgrade to a second skyview with a garmin gps of some sort after I get some more time and my IFR rating. But I'm also planning on spending some 6-8 years building so who knows where I'll be when it's time to install the dash.


$6k is pretty decent price for a paint job! You're looking at something like $3-4k in materials to do it yourself. I assume you'd be helping prep as well?

The only way I can see to hit $200k is to get every option and outsource as much as possible. QB kit, LED wingtips, carbon overhead console and dash, prewired dash, outsource the interior, outsource paint, etc. Those options add up. Personally I enjoy building and want to do all those things.

Tools also need to be factored in but I didn't include them in my budget since I already have a good chunk of them.

There is roughly $1000-1500 in tools that you have to buy to do the riveting. And at least that much again that could be spent on nice to haves (pneumatic riveter, drdt-2, etc). And probably another $1000 if you don't have some of the more basic tools.
 
Lots of choices in building a -10 and what is perceived as necessary by one person isn't by another. I am a simple person who likes simple things, and the beauty of building your own plane is that it can reflect your own personality. Robert, you can check your PM's for a bit more info. on my build.

 
Empennage Arrived - Finally

Well, my empennage finally arrived, well, most of it.

The 4 months turned out to be 8. I guess that's the price of success (for Vans).

Inventory done, now for committing to a primer option.

I was going to use the EAA builders log facility but to be honest it's rather immature. I may build my own if there isn't one I like already available, or I will just setup a wordpress site with some plugins that will do what I need.:)
 
Lots of choices in building a -10 and what is perceived as necessary by one person isn't by another. I am a simple person who likes simple things, and the beauty of building your own plane is that it can reflect your own personality. Robert, you can check your PM's for a bit more info. on my build.


It's been a while so I will go back and check again :) Nice pic !

Thanks
 
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