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RV14 emp ordered. Now what?

dbs

Member
My RV14 emp will be shipped in a couple of weeks. I have acquired 99% of the tools. Its the primer I'm still pondering. I do want to prime. Its between rattle cans or Stewarts system as I want to paint during our somewhat cold winters here in Canada in my heated garage. What is the consensus on Stewarts (which one) whether its as good as the more toxic epoxy stuff. Is there a difference in the color?
 
I've used the Stewarts EkoPrime Primer/Sealer smoke grey. Very easy to work with an clean up. As for colour I can't compare sorry but I'm happy with the smoke grey.

I would highly recommend the Stewarts Systems paints and primers.
 
RV14 emp ordered. Now what?

I decided I was going to primer my RV-9A because I wasn't sure if I was ever going to be able to afford a hangar and the finished airplane might have to live outside near the coast. I decided if I was going to go to that trouble, I might as well go with the best primer I could find which turned out to be Super Koropon epoxy primer. This needs Alumiprep and Alodine preparation. This primer is "fluid resistant" (Skydrol, avgas, oil etc.) and I'm glad I used it and would probably use it again. I was able to paint outside almost all of the time (especially for wing skins) if I picked my days. I also built a small spray booth inside which used a furnace blower to exhaust outside my shop.

Most of the effort in primer painting was in the surface preparation and after painting cleanup. In my view, if you are really concerned about internal corrosion, then "rattle can" primer will give an illusion of protection rather than real protection. Don't know about Stewart Systems. It's a lot of work to properly primer the interior surfaces (that is, to make sure the primer really adheres to the surface), so I'd encourage you to do a little more research. What are your reasons for priming, and then select a primer to do that job. Talk to the paint manufacturers as well as posting on this forum.
 
I went with Akzo Nobel Epoxy primer. I have been happy with it.

Next time, I will probably try to select something a little more friendly (to my workspace and health). I have talked with Stewart on their Eco products. I will probably go that route then.
 
A reasonably safe/less messy option is to brush or roll on the Sherwin Williams "wash primer" that Van's uses in the quickbuilds (P60G2 I think). Not the route I chose but it's been tested in the pacific northwest with good results (coated pieces left outdoors at the mothership in Oregon).

I've been happy with my choice of SEM rattle-can self etching primer. Not cheap but easy to apply to each part and a very quick way to prep a part same day of install. (best price I've found is at Summit Racing but no idea if they'll ship to BC)
 
As others have said, there is no "right" answer and something you will have to decided on yourself. Lots of opinions on this board.
I think there is enough evidence that it's not required but may be beneficial depending on where you plan on flying / keeping your aircraft eventually.

I like the look and scratch resistance of the AKZO primer and have been using it on my project. Others have been using some of the rattle can products.

Look at a few of the build logs of others and what you think you want to do. Primer does add weight and will impact how long it takes for you to build (surface prep / etc). It also requires you to have the right safety gear.

Congrats on your purchase and welcome to VAF. Just don't spend too much time on these never-ending debates! :)
 
Thanks guys for the input on priming. Still, I'm no further ahead on a decision. I may just order a can of Stewart's system and compare with a rattle can. I have access to some professional aircraft maintenance people who work on airliners. May seek their opinion. My own experience is moving my old 30 year old piper 180 from Regina Sask. to Boca Raton FL and watching the interior skin get a "whitish" coating on it within a year of leaving it on the ramp in Pompano.
 
I do not always prime but for where you live it would likely be a good idea.
Forget the rattle cans. If you are going to prime do it right. I have found that 100LL fuel will often easily remove spray bomb primer.
Find out who is considered the "best" car painter in your area and then find out who supplies their paint. That supplier will likely have all the information that you need to properly prime aircraft aluminum. Sometimes it is not easy, and never cheap, to get paint products shipped in from the States.
Take the time to properly apply the primer. A bad job with rattle cans is much worse then doing nothing.
 
I do not always prime but for where you live it would likely be a good idea.
Forget the rattle cans. If you are going to prime do it right. I have found that 100LL fuel will often easily remove spray bomb primer.
Find out who is considered the "best" car painter in your area and then find out who supplies their paint. That supplier will likely have all the information that you need to properly prime aircraft aluminum. Sometimes it is not easy, and never cheap, to get paint products shipped in from the States.
Take the time to properly apply the primer. A bad job with rattle cans is much worse then doing nothing.

What's the evidence that a "bad job with rattle cans is much worse than doing nothing"? How do you define a bad job? I did due diligence and chose this route and have found the primer to be reasonably resilient over 2 years of building.
 
I used 3 different priming methods on my RV-7. I used Marhyde Self Etching for the emp kit, Stewart's waterborne Eko-Primer/Sealer on the wings and much of the fuse. Rattle can self etching primer for the small stuff and some of the final skins to go on at the hangar.

The one with the least performance over time has been the Marhyde. It was easy to scratch and had adhesion problems.

Next would be the dupli-color rattle can self etching primer. It has OK durability that increases with age. It sticks well to most stuff but won't take dimpling or any thing like that after priming.

The best for the RV-7 was the Stewart Eko-Primer/Sealer. It did require, etching/scrubbing and had a learning curve to understand how to spray it. It also takes a long time to dry and is easy to damage until it does. Once it dries it sticks well as long as the prep work was done properly. It is also non-hazardous which is a plus!

Fast forward to my new RV-10 build and I am going with AKZO. So far this stuff is amazing! It does require proper prep but is super easy to spray. I am doing the scrub with BonAmi and scotchbrite, rinse and prime method. It cures fast and is tough as nails!
 
Congratulations on deciding on a RV-14. I've just started the RV-14 Empennage myself, currently finishing up the rudder.

I've decided to go with the Sherwin Williams P60G2 primer. It can be a bit tricky until you learn how to apply it properly, but it goes on nice, is amazingly durable and looks nice. I'm applying a very light coat and only areas that have metal to metal contact (rib to skin). Good luck ....
 
A reasonably safe/less messy option is to brush or roll on the Sherwin Williams "wash primer" that Van's uses in the quickbuilds (P60G2 I think).

I'm using Sherwin Williams wash primer on my 10. I like it a lot! I haven't tried brushing or rolling, I spray mine. Here's why it's been great for me:
1. Self etching - Just clean parts with acetone and spray!. No need to manually etch, which is a HUGE time saver. Self etching was the key for my choice to use this product over some others.
2. Easy to spray, very forgiving.
3. Tough as nails. Once fully cured (about 24 hours) it can be dimpled.
4. Fast drying. Takes about 3 minutes to dry to touch. I usually let set 24 hours before riveting (to let it fully cure) but can be handled very quickly. Great for when I have a lot of parts to do at once and can't fit them all on rack at same time.

Here's a link to their Product Data Sheet:
https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=P60G2
 
+! on Duplicolor rattle can for internal priming. If you can wait and prime post dimpling, etc then I love the can. The only hard part is while its dry to the touch in 5 minutes the waiting the 3 days for it to properly harden seems like a patience test.
 
P60G2

+1 on P60G2.
Prep is key. Surface must be clean and free of aluminum oxide. Water break surface.
Lots of ways to do it but I used Bon Ami and scotchbrite.
If you have to spray indoors, build a spray booth and vent the fumes outside. I used shower curtains hung from conduits placed on garage door frame. It was quick to set up and take down. A bilge blower hooked to a dryer vent hose vented fumes out through an exterior wall mounted dryer vent.
 
I have used both rattle cans and Stewart Systems. I am very happy with Stewart Systems. It was much easier than I thought it would be. Adhesion ad durability are very good. Cleanup is a snap. And the environmental benefits are great. Follow the directions and you will see good results!
 
Thanks guys for the input on priming. Still, I'm no further ahead on a decision. I may just order a can of Stewart's system and compare with a rattle can. I have access to some professional aircraft maintenance people who work on airliners. May seek their opinion. My own experience is moving my old 30 year old piper 180 from Regina Sask. to Boca Raton FL and watching the interior skin get a "whitish" coating on it within a year of leaving it on the ramp in Pompano.

The transport category aircraft makers use different variants of two-part epoxy primers that contain chromates. Same for the overhaul and repair stations. Akzo-Nobel is a big player in this market, but other manufacturers make similar products. They use slightly different formulations for different areas (e.g. interior vs. exterior prime), but the EAB market has no need for such segmentation. I think a chromate based primer is going to be the best performer, but it carries potentially significant health hazards if you don't have the proper protective equipment.
 
Hmmm, I think based on the discussion I may go with P60G2. Just exactly how toxic is this stuff if I use a small booth made from carboard and vent it using a fan to the outside. Is it flammable around an electric fan or heater?
 
+1 for the Stewarts primer. I liked the fact that it was waterborne and had no nasty solvents, especially if I wanted to use it in the basement. I didn't have to worry about my furnace or water heater shutting off or worse. Another nice feature is because it comes in a quart can I can stir it up and use it straight out of the can with a foam brush. Great for small spur of the moment parts and jobs or touch ups.
 
Hmmm, I think based on the discussion I may go with P60G2. Just exactly how toxic is this stuff if I use a small booth made from carboard and vent it using a fan to the outside. Is it flammable around an electric fan or heater?

Here's a link to data sheet. Not sure how to interpret VOC number???

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=P60G2

As far as how flammable, not really sure. I spray mine outside. Since it drys so quickly, I can do so and not worry about too much foreign stuff getting in it.
 
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