Have started the 5 Yr rubber replacement process. I have some fancy Cable-Type Flexible Hose Clamp Pliers that do a pretty good job of expanding the water hose spring clamps so they can be removed from the hose clamping area. Once the clamps are positioned out of the way I am have difficulty breaking loose the hose from the fittings so I can remove the old hose. No way that I can twist them to break the bond. A screw driver blade under the hose doesn't seem to work. Have thought of cutting the hose but am concerned about damaging the aluminum fitting which the hose connects to. Does anyone have a secret water hose removal technique that they would share with me? Thanks, Bob Kibby
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ROTAX Water Hose Replacement
- Thread starter Bob Kibby
- Start date
Driftdown
Well Known Member
Hi Bob,
Before you cut that hose, try these from Amazon, they all work good:
1) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W9SEJ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002YKIZBA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050SFZBG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Those tools Driftdown posted are good, but you can use a flat tip screwdriver okay just don't gouge the metal. You can use a box cutter too, but again don't try and cut so deep you score the metal deeply. If the metal ony gets scratched that isn't a big deal. Some hoses you can grab with a pair of pliers and give it a twist on top of the metal and it will break loose.
One of these tools or ideas make work for you or a combination. It may come down to what you can get to an individual hose with.
One of these tools or ideas make work for you or a combination. It may come down to what you can get to an individual hose with.
I agree.
We have been using this one in our shop for a while now and it works great.
cutting or prying with a screw driver has a high risk of damaging the tubes.
Using a small flat tip screwdriver and holding the flat area parallel to the tubing doesn't cause any damage. If you aim the sharp edge downward or use a huge screwdriver it can score the tubing. You can score the tubing with a sharp curved Awl like in the picks if the point is directed wrong. Using any metal tool pushing under the hose can score the soft aluminum tube. I like a pair of pliers and just grab the rubber tube over the metal tube and give it a twist. It usually just breaks away and allows you to pull it off. Once in a great while I cut the outer layer with a razor blade, doesn't have to be all the way through and twist it. Comes right off.
Whatever you slide under the hose you just need to be a little careful.
Whatever you slide under the hose you just need to be a little careful.
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Roger (if you think you are fooling anyone.....
)As with most things, it is all about the level of skill required for completing a given process. The lower the skill level required, the more likely that most anyone can pull off a process properly. Required skill level to use a hose removal tool and not cause any damage is extremely low (much lower than being careful with a sharp edged flat blade screwdriver). I imagine that is why they were invented and are now a commonly available tool.
"As with most things, it is all about the level of skill required for completing a given process. The lower the skill level required, the more likely that most anyone can pull off a process properly. Required skill level to use a hose removal tool and not cause any damage is extremely low (much lower than being careful with a sharp edged flat blade screwdriver). I imagine that is why they were invented and are now a commonly available tool."
You only need to break the bind the hose has on the tube. Lift the edges up and twist the hose. Either tool can cause damage if you get carried away. Neither will cause damage if common sense is used. Called a friend that has done around 52 hose changes. He said he has used different types of tools and when used with a little care none are a problem. Anyone doing maint. they have never preformed should take it a little slower and look beyond that moment for unintended consequences.
If someone hasn't performed a job before these are the perfect times to call someone who has some experience with that job or work with someone who has. I have done itmanytimes. Keeps the time in the job down, keeps from re-inventing the wheel and keeps any oops moment down.
Lots of nice people out there willing to help.
You only need to break the bind the hose has on the tube. Lift the edges up and twist the hose. Either tool can cause damage if you get carried away. Neither will cause damage if common sense is used. Called a friend that has done around 52 hose changes. He said he has used different types of tools and when used with a little care none are a problem. Anyone doing maint. they have never preformed should take it a little slower and look beyond that moment for unintended consequences.
If someone hasn't performed a job before these are the perfect times to call someone who has some experience with that job or work with someone who has. I have done itmanytimes. Keeps the time in the job down, keeps from re-inventing the wheel and keeps any oops moment down.
Lots of nice people out there willing to help.
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How was my day at the hangar
It was ugly at the hangar today but progress was made. Thanks to all that offered advice because I needed all of the advice and then some.
General comments:
(1) I had already removed my carbs and carb sockets for the 5 yr rubber replacement process
(2) The Cable ?Type Flexible Hose Clamp Pliers work well if the clamp ears are oriented so there is no interference when you try to move the clamp laterally off the clamping area.
Remove:
(3) Muffler
(4) Cyl 2/4 Intake manifold
(5) Cyl 1/3 Intake manifold Allen screws so you can reposition the manifold to access the cyl #3 upper water hose clamp. The 1/3 intake manifold is connected to the ignition module so I didn?t remove it.
(6) You need to get the intake manifolds out of the way to get to the #3 & #4 hose clamps
Cut, hack and destroy hoses on the top of the engine:
(7) All the water hoses on the top of the engine are welded to the fittings! I used a razor blade to cut the hoses thru the first layer of fiber. I used a screw driver to get under the hose. I used pliers to try to break the bond between the hose and fittings without success. Also remember to break the RTV bond between the hoses and shroud over the cylinders. It becomes a matter of will so take whatever action is necessary to remove the hose. I cut the #3 hose into two pieces so I could remove the expansion tank assembly from the top of the engine with the # 1, 2, & 4 hoses attached to the expansion tank but separated from the cylinder fittings.
The hoses below the cylinders going to the water pump are easier to remove at the cylinder end but are a challenge at the water pump end. I have been able to remove all the lower hoses except the #3 & #4 hoses at the water pump end. This has been difficult because the Hose Clamp Pliers opens the spring clamp but I am not able to move the clamp out of the clamping area due to interference with the motor mount structure. So tomorrow is another day and another challenge.
Alternative: Win the lottery & get a real mechanic to do the job!
Bob Kibby ?N712BK?
It was ugly at the hangar today but progress was made. Thanks to all that offered advice because I needed all of the advice and then some.
General comments:
(1) I had already removed my carbs and carb sockets for the 5 yr rubber replacement process
(2) The Cable ?Type Flexible Hose Clamp Pliers work well if the clamp ears are oriented so there is no interference when you try to move the clamp laterally off the clamping area.
Remove:
(3) Muffler
(4) Cyl 2/4 Intake manifold
(5) Cyl 1/3 Intake manifold Allen screws so you can reposition the manifold to access the cyl #3 upper water hose clamp. The 1/3 intake manifold is connected to the ignition module so I didn?t remove it.
(6) You need to get the intake manifolds out of the way to get to the #3 & #4 hose clamps
Cut, hack and destroy hoses on the top of the engine:
(7) All the water hoses on the top of the engine are welded to the fittings! I used a razor blade to cut the hoses thru the first layer of fiber. I used a screw driver to get under the hose. I used pliers to try to break the bond between the hose and fittings without success. Also remember to break the RTV bond between the hoses and shroud over the cylinders. It becomes a matter of will so take whatever action is necessary to remove the hose. I cut the #3 hose into two pieces so I could remove the expansion tank assembly from the top of the engine with the # 1, 2, & 4 hoses attached to the expansion tank but separated from the cylinder fittings.
The hoses below the cylinders going to the water pump are easier to remove at the cylinder end but are a challenge at the water pump end. I have been able to remove all the lower hoses except the #3 & #4 hoses at the water pump end. This has been difficult because the Hose Clamp Pliers opens the spring clamp but I am not able to move the clamp out of the clamping area due to interference with the motor mount structure. So tomorrow is another day and another challenge.
Alternative: Win the lottery & get a real mechanic to do the job!
Bob Kibby ?N712BK?
Good luck tomorrow.
Driftdown
Well Known Member
Not intending to shoot down any potential sale Dave, just clarifying a maintenance detail.
Rotax specifies a 5 year hose replacement interval for the engine. That does not apply to airframe specific parts. The airplane manufacturer is responsible for specifying replacement for airframe specific parts.
The RV-12 maint. manual specifies that hoses specific to the airframe (oil cooler, etc.) be replaced at 10 year intervals.
Hose Replacement
I thought I remembered the 10 year replacement on Van's airframe hoses but now i can't find the reference. Which hoses are in the 10 year Van's replacement list and where in the maintenance manual is that noted? Which Rotax hoses are in the 5 year replacement cycle? Are the carb rubber mounts in the 5 year cycle?
This is very helpful. Thanks
Rich
I thought I remembered the 10 year replacement on Van's airframe hoses but now i can't find the reference. Which hoses are in the 10 year Van's replacement list and where in the maintenance manual is that noted? Which Rotax hoses are in the 5 year replacement cycle? Are the carb rubber mounts in the 5 year cycle?
This is very helpful. Thanks
Rich
Better days at the hangar
Got the lower cyl #3 & # 4 hoses off at the water pump end. Used the standard clamp pliers and was able move the ears around enough to get the clamps in position where I could move them far enough to get them off of the clamping area. Puzzle me this? I was able to get all of the lower hoses off without cutting the exterior of the hose. Rotate the ends with pliers and they came right off.
The hoses look good at the ends and by feel running my finger on the inside of the hose where they had been clamped. I opened up the cyl #4 upper hose and the inside of the hose is shiny and there is no difference in appearance between the clamping area and the rest of the hose. I have a couple of photos but need help posting them.
The rubber plate (860 826) that goes under the Water Distribution Assy (922 268) is held in place by ears that go over a couple of the Assy ports. Both of these ears were broken so have ordered a rubber plate replacement.
Installation of the new lower hoses was no problem. Don't expect any installation problem with the upper hoses. Things are looking good at the hangar
Bob Kibby "N712BK"
Got the lower cyl #3 & # 4 hoses off at the water pump end. Used the standard clamp pliers and was able move the ears around enough to get the clamps in position where I could move them far enough to get them off of the clamping area. Puzzle me this? I was able to get all of the lower hoses off without cutting the exterior of the hose. Rotate the ends with pliers and they came right off.
The hoses look good at the ends and by feel running my finger on the inside of the hose where they had been clamped. I opened up the cyl #4 upper hose and the inside of the hose is shiny and there is no difference in appearance between the clamping area and the rest of the hose. I have a couple of photos but need help posting them.
The rubber plate (860 826) that goes under the Water Distribution Assy (922 268) is held in place by ears that go over a couple of the Assy ports. Both of these ears were broken so have ordered a rubber plate replacement.
Installation of the new lower hoses was no problem. Don't expect any installation problem with the upper hoses. Things are looking good at the hangar
Bob Kibby "N712BK"
When applying the spring clamps back on the new hose they will seal much better if the clamp is up near the flare on the tube under the rubber. If the clamps are too far back towards the hose end t can leak, but not always. Also don't put the clamp on top of the false on the tube.
yankee-flyer
Well Known Member
Scott, can you clarify
If I understand correctly, any hose with a "VA" part number doesn't need to be replaced at 5 years?
THANKS
Wayne Moyer 120241/143WM
If I understand correctly, any hose with a "VA" part number doesn't need to be replaced at 5 years?
THANKS
Wayne Moyer 120241/143WM
Hose replacement
I thought I would add to Kibby's thread and share my first-time experiences doing the Rotax coolant hose replacement.
I had very much the same experience as Bob with the clamps. On the bottom of the engine all the clamps but cyl. #4 at the water pump are accessible with a pair of hose clamp pliers. I also have the cable clamp removal tool but even with that I could not get on that #4 clamp until I saw that it is accessible with the cable tool going down from the top.
I bought the tools on Amazon, but the cable tool is also available from Rotax suppliers.
I spent 3 hours getting the bottom hoses changed. And figured another 3 hours for the top on another day. That proved to be accurate, there are 2 clamps on top that neither of my tools would get without removing the intake manifolds. I had anticipated this and had new O-rings and lock washers on hand.
It sounds worse than it is, the manifolds come off with no pain and we all had to do them when we prepped the motor on initial installation so I had been there before. The clamp on cyl. #3 was just under the manifold and no way to get on it...
By taking off the manifold and holding it aside I was able to squeeze the clamp and move it back. It is just visible under a spark plug wire in the picture.
and also the clamp on cyl. #4...
The hoses are the most trouble of the 5 year rubber replacement. I have to keep reminding myself that I like to tinker.
It is a good idea to have the intake O-rings on hand and the proper clamp tools before attempting the coolant hoses.
As Bob noted, the hoses taken off looked to be in pretty good shape, I could not tell that they were deteriorated, but not too sure what to look for or even if rubber deterioration is something that is visible.
I am also going to be replacing the oil lines, except the oil return hose, with the Thermostasis kit from AC Specialty, and the teflon fuel hoses from ACS as well, and as you can see, all those hoses have to be off the engine to get room to work on coolant hoses.
I thought I would add to Kibby's thread and share my first-time experiences doing the Rotax coolant hose replacement.
I had very much the same experience as Bob with the clamps. On the bottom of the engine all the clamps but cyl. #4 at the water pump are accessible with a pair of hose clamp pliers. I also have the cable clamp removal tool but even with that I could not get on that #4 clamp until I saw that it is accessible with the cable tool going down from the top.
I bought the tools on Amazon, but the cable tool is also available from Rotax suppliers.
I spent 3 hours getting the bottom hoses changed. And figured another 3 hours for the top on another day. That proved to be accurate, there are 2 clamps on top that neither of my tools would get without removing the intake manifolds. I had anticipated this and had new O-rings and lock washers on hand.
It sounds worse than it is, the manifolds come off with no pain and we all had to do them when we prepped the motor on initial installation so I had been there before. The clamp on cyl. #3 was just under the manifold and no way to get on it...
By taking off the manifold and holding it aside I was able to squeeze the clamp and move it back. It is just visible under a spark plug wire in the picture.
and also the clamp on cyl. #4...
The hoses are the most trouble of the 5 year rubber replacement. I have to keep reminding myself that I like to tinker
.It is a good idea to have the intake O-rings on hand and the proper clamp tools before attempting the coolant hoses.
As Bob noted, the hoses taken off looked to be in pretty good shape, I could not tell that they were deteriorated, but not too sure what to look for or even if rubber deterioration is something that is visible.
I am also going to be replacing the oil lines, except the oil return hose, with the Thermostasis kit from AC Specialty, and the teflon fuel hoses from ACS as well, and as you can see, all those hoses have to be off the engine to get room to work on coolant hoses.
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RFSchaller
Well Known Member
Thanks for the pics, Tony. I will have to do this replacement in about 18 months so this will be helpful.
Rich
Rich
