RV-7 or Kitfox

Have been paying off bills and saving to build an RV7 for a while. Get a call from my father today and one of his friends has a complete Kitfox kit for sale (with rotax and engine accessories) for $18k. Hard to pass up. What would you do?

Figure out what you want in a plane, then decide? Of course, you could get the Kitfox kit and resell it or part it for a profit and put that toward the RV.

If you want a Kitfox, go for it. Any airplane takes a lot of work to build so be sure that is what you want or you won't finish it. You have to like building and really want the airplane to complete it.

Personally I'd stay with the RV because that's what I want. It's not the price, it's the time to build it that's the real cost.

is there

What's your mission?????????????? Are you going to just go out and putt around or are you going to go flying? With the kitfox your going to putt, with the RV you can putt over to the local greasy spoon or you can do Fort Collins (KFNL) to Tucson (KRYN) in 3 hrs and 50 minutes. Easy to do both in a RV

Echo Tango said:

Have been paying off bills and saving to build an RV7 for a while. Get a call from my father today and one of his friends has a complete Kitfox kit for sale (with rotax and engine accessories) for $18k. Hard to pass up. What would you do?

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Which engine? If it is a 2 stroke walk.

mtnflyer said:

What's your mission?????????????? Are you going to just go out and putt around or are you going to go flying? With the kitfox your going to putt, with the RV you can putt over to the local greasy spoon or you can do Fort Collins (KFNL) to Tucson (KRYN) in 3 hrs and 50 minutes. Easy to do both in a RV

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the mission is really just to have an airplane at this point. i'm still young, and while the RV is, in my opinion, the ultimate all-around airplane and ownership of one is my ultimate goal, i would love to just have something to fly for now. wonder if the kit fox would be a good introductory lesson in aircraft building and just save the RV for later on?


as far as the engine goes, i have no idea though i think it may be a rotax 920?
kit is 10 years old

Don't be tempted...

...into settling for something less than what you really have your heart set on. For some of us the window of opportunity to build and fly our own airplane is short, and may only come once in a lifetime. It is therefore important to not settle for anything less, as in time it could result in lost interest, bitterness, or even regret.

I challenge you to stay the course and not be tempted by a "good deal" that will only steer you from the airplane of your dreams. Those can be found on eBay any day. I suspect the reason that the Kitfox is available is because it's owner has lost interest in the project. Maybe he really wanted an RV7 and is now trying to unload it to buy that empennage kit!

Brian
RV-10 (Flying) 220 hours

Echo Tango said:

the mission is really just to have an airplane at this point. ...

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If you just want to have an airplane, then that same $18K could buy you a Cessna 150 that you can fly home tomorrow. (Or if you have a bit more to spend, you could buy an already flying RV.) If on the other hand you want to build an airplane, then take some time to think about what airplane you really want to dedicate the next few years of your life building.

Flyfalcons said:

Figure out what you want in a plane, then decide? Of course, you could get the Kitfox kit and resell it or part it for a profit and put that toward the RV.

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if it is a ten year old kit i really doubt you will be able to resell the kit for anything more than what you get for it. same with parting it out. buy the kit if you want to build it.

which kitfox is it?

Simple

Have you ever flown a kitfox? An RV? That alone would decide it for me.

Not to bash the kitfox..but in my opinion the RV outclasses the kitfox in control feel/harmony.

Just my .01

RV or Kitfox

Echo Tango said:

Have been paying off bills and saving to build an RV7 for a while. Get a call from my father today and one of his friends has a complete Kitfox kit for sale (with rotax and engine accessories) for $18k. Hard to pass up. What would you do?

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If you are waffling between these 2 aircraft, you really need to assess your mission profile, because they are 2 completely different types of aircraft.
If your mission is strictly to fly, either one will work. If you are a cross country type of flyer, RV's win that one hands down. If you are a low and slow kind of guy, the kitfox wins. Either way, expect to spend a large amount of time building either one, so make sure you want what you're going to have when it is done.

is it a model 4 1200, is the engine a 912. if it's a 2000 kit that's isn't too bad. You need to figure your mission. THe kitfox is a fun airplane. But I wouldn't give up my rv7.

You might check with Andy Karmy. He built a beautiful RV-9A and had to sell it for a LSA (medical reasons I believe). He bought a Kitfox and could give good comparisons of the flight characteristics between the two. His Kitfox web site is http://flying.karmy.com/.

I don't know about the Kitfox 7 but I'm reading alot about the other models having a crosswind component of about 15. That may be a consideration.

Like others ahve already said there's a huge difference between the mission profiles of the Kitfox and an RV-7. All aircraft are compromises. You can always rent low and slow (think Cessna 150)!

Bob

Depending on which model, which engine and what's included with the kit from a friend, It may be just what you're looking for.

When comparing the Kitfox vs RV. It will build in 1/2 the time at 1/2 the cost. It will haul 1/2 the load at 1/2 the speed. If you try to sell, it will sell for 1/2 of what you think.

To build anything takes a commitment. If you just want to get airborne and have something to fly while you decide your mission. This might just fit the bill.

I helped build a Rans S-6, 600hrs build time in 4 months. Great little plane and a lot of fun. Gave me the confidence to tackle my own project.

As others have stated, very different planes.
One thing a Kitfox does have is folding wings which makes it easier to store if it becomes necessary. They easily fit in a garage. I have a buddy with one in his garage. Gorgeous plane, flew it for a year and been stored for 15. Crazy.

They are slow. I can't think of a time I wished my RV was slower...

I plan on building a kitfox at some point in my life. I kinda wish I had done it first since it would have been cheaper to get in the air.

The kitfox is the first airplane that captured my imagination of flight. So I need to return the favor and put one in the air.

Phil

Here you go. The kitfox, at least the model 4 is a wonderful machine. It has better rudder control, you can turn the airplane on a dime in the air. The RV it takes a lot of rudder to make the airplane slip or turn with rudder. The stall is around 38to 42. You will be up in the air in about 300ft or less. you will be able to land between 300 and 500ft. The turn rate is right up there with the RV, so is the elevator. I will say the elevator is lighter than the rv. The ailerons about the same. If I fly the kitfox around 83kts I can do just about anything with it, except a 180 turn back, I slow to 60mph indicated before making the turn and than push in full throttle in the turn, can stand it on a wing tip and turn around. The rv, no way. The kitfox would be the funest airplane you ever flew, once you get use to the differential rudder thing, after that, the rudder thing is just plain fun stuff.

My advice, fly both. Now I will say I did my transition in the rv6 and the first landing I ballooned the landing, after that landing I started landing like the kitfox on a wheels landing. I mastered the Rv just by doing that alone.

I am an expert between the two airplanes because I own both. Last year I put in 200hrs in the RV and 160hrs in the kitfox. You wouldn't be able to tear me away from either airplane, the rv is nose wheel and the kitfox is tailwheel. Best of both worlds. I feel spoiled.

If you really want a Kitfox I have a real deal for you. My friend's Model IV is covered in S**** almost ready for silver with everything except the final paint included. New never run 582 Rotax, complete instruments with intercom and ValCom 720 radio, prop, upholstery, upgraded wheels,tires and brakes. The workmanship is to a very high standard and the fabric is as nice as any you will see with ribstitched wing. He lost interest several years ago and it has been in a heated shop all its life. He would sell it for $18000. PM me if you want it.
Having said that I have several hours in Kitfoxes including my friend's Rotec radial powered model V. They are pleasant flying airplanes with no vices. The radial is a real blast to fly very smooth and sounds great going overhead. By the way he is almost finished with his RV7. He has a 182 and a N3N-3 also in his hangar. It's nice to have friends with too many airplanes that need to be exersized. Don

Decide what you want to do

If you just want to go flying, by all means get the Kitfox. It's a wonderful little plane. It will allow you to learn tailwheel flying and will let you enjoy going low and slow. A friend of mine just got one, and I am dying to fly it.

If you want to go somewhere with a purpose, get an RV or a fast certified airplane, like a Mooney or Bonanza.

If you don't know what you want, and don't have much experience, I would encourage you to get the Kitfox and learn to fly with it. By the time you master it, you'll be a fine pilot, and you'll know whether you want to keep it. You'll have a better idea of what you want to buy or build long term, as well. You can sell a well built Kitfox without losing a lot of money, and build or buy something else later. That said, you can never go wrong with an RV. If I had your choice, though, and didn't have the go-fast disease, I might just go with the Kitfox.

My 2 cents

I'm in the same boat as you, trying to decide between an RV and a Kitfox. As has been said before, decide upon your mission and choose your plane based on that. If you want to fly to weekend destinations 600 miles away and you build the ktifox you will not be happy. On the other hand, if you want to fly low and slow and land in that field next to the river for a quick swin and you build an RV, you will not be happy.

Now, you say you just want to fly. I used to think the same way. However the more I flew the more I realized I want more out of flying than just being up in the air. I know this sounds like blasphemy, but flying just to fly gets boring really fast. Soon you're going to want to GO somewhere. What you need to figure out is where is it you want to go. Whether more often than not you want to fly 50 miles for a burger or you want to fly 500 miles for a weekend. Once you can answer that question then it's a no brainer to choose your plane.

In a perfect world I would build both planes, but I don't have the time or $$$ to pull that one off. I have access through my flying club to a C210 at $160/hour. For me, the 210 and the RV fulfill the same mission, to get to a far away place fast. The upside of the 210 is I can bring more than 1 passanger, the downside is it's not an RV. But for only $160 an hour its hard for me to justify the time and money outlay that would be required to build an RV. Of course the 210 isn't as fast, aerobatic, as good looking, can't use the latest and greatest avionics and burns more fuel. But I also don't have to lay down a min of $65K to get in it either.

The kitfox satisfies my urge to fly low and slow, putting around the sky, and landing at just about any where there is a clear 1,000 feet. It's not a great plane to go from point A to point B fast, but when you want to cruise up the coast at 60mph and 500 feet with the doors off I don't think you can beat the kitfox.

If you're serious about this kitfox find out more about it, what model is it, what engine is it, what is the history of the engine, etc. Also read up on the various models of the kitfox to get an idea of what the differences are between them. My opinion is I wouldn't fly anything earlier than a model 4, and I wouldn't fly behind a 2 stroke. This is based soley one what I've read, I have never flown a kitfox or spoken to anyone who has. I'm just not comfortable with the reliability of a 2-stroke motor, and the earlier kitfox models are said to have some intersting flying qualities.

As you have already found the best resource for information on the RV, here are some places to read up on the kitfox:

http://www.teamkitfox.com


http://www.iperlman.com/MyKitfox.html

John and Debra McBean can answer about any question you might have. They are the current owners of Kitfox. Their site is www.kitfoxaircraft.com Lots of FAQ's, and tech info there also. I'm flying an Avid which is the same as the early Kitfoxes. Like it's already been mentioned there is no comparison to flying at 100ft and 60 mph with the doors off. I can cruise at 90mph burning 4.5 gph if I want to go someplace. I know its no RV but even flying clear from the Bay Area to the Idaho backcountry is doable in a single (long)flying day. The Kitfox IV's with a 912 are running about 115. To me slaloming through pine trees, and landing on a sand bar alongside a river is far more satisfying than getting from A to B fast. Once again it's all what your mission is.

With that said now the reason that I hang out here if I had the money to build or buy an RV I would own one in a second. Since our current leadership is giving the Military it's smallest annual raise in years this year I dont' see that happening anytime soon. While I'm on my soapbox did you know that many of the younger troops that are gone overseas fighthing the war on terror are eligible to collect food stamps??

slyfox said:

Now I will say I did my transition in the rv6 and the first landing I ballooned the landing, after that landing I started landing like the kitfox on a wheels landing. I mastered the Rv just by doing that alone.

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Allbee, I'm glad to hear that you don't 3-point your RV-6A. Only an expert RV master should attempt that.

Kitfox also sells a book called 'Kitfox Pilot's Guide' I highly recommend if you're considering a Kitfox.

Bob

There's no good reason that you can't fly a Kitfox..

....from California to New York.

Over the years, I've gassed up J-3 Cubs to Stearmans, here in Georgia, going across the USA. It just takes a little longer.

I've ferried Piper Pawnees from here to Wichita with both booms and a spreader attached at around 85 MPH, slower than a Kitfox.

Best,

I flew a N3N from Austin, TX to Twin Falls at 95mph. Great fun and some great scenery from low and slow. Took 16 hours flying time. The next week I flew my 7 to Denver and back about the same distance in 5.7hrs. High and fast is good also. Don

Echo Tango said:

Have been paying off bills and saving to build an RV7 for a while. Get a call from my father today and one of his friends has a complete Kitfox kit for sale (with rotax and engine accessories) for $18k. Hard to pass up. What would you do?

Click to expand...

Well, it sounds like what you really want is an airplane that you can fly right away as opposed to building a plane.

And while both the Kitfox and RV are great planes, but I would suggest that you use your money to get something like a Cessna 150 with a VOR/Glideslope. Then you would have a good flying plane that you could use for IFR training which would be ready to fly right now.