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What would you do different?

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
A few years ago there was a really good two-part article in RVAtor, asking people who worked there what they'd do differently on their planes.

As I was clecoing and fitting the floor covers on the center fuselage today, I was reminded of that (as I wondered if there's a really good reason to use pop-rivets on the top of the 705 bulkhead where the baggage cover meets and overlaps the floor cover, especially when the floor cover has screws.

Anyway, that got me thinking to ask those of you with completed RVs what would you do differently if you had it to do all over again?
 
Build two at once

The next time I build an RV, which I hope to do after I finish my RV8, I will build two at one time. I've found that most of the time, particularly with the QB, you spend a lot of time just figuring out what to do. The actual "doing it" goes pretty quickly.

Also, since I'm not in the US, I would get the whole kit shipped at one time. It saves a lot of time and money.

Related to actual building, I didn't use pop rivets on the floors, but I put in nutplates and torx screws. It has worked out very well, but after I did it, I realized I should have used countersunk screws.
 
Install an Autopilot as Part of the Original Build

I always planned of using the plane IFR but I did not think an auto pilot was necessary so I didn't provide for one in the original build. Now that I know this airplane demands an autopilot when flying single pilot IFR I am installing one. IT IS A BEAR! So many difficult things have to be redone to accommodate it - especially the roll servo! Lost my cool today but have it back under control now - new tool always helps.

Bob Axsom
 
What I'll do different next time....

#1: QB for sure
(I spent a summer under the 'canoe' on my RV-6 in the hot garage)

#2 *Start* with 180hp/CS setup (not 160hp/FP like I did)

#3 Not worry about scratching the parts so much

#4 Not worry about the *perfect* fit so much
(great quote: "We're just going to Denver, not Mars.")

#5 Less glass cockpit stuff
(More steam gauges - less 'technology'. Having said that, let me paraphrase Charton Heston, "You'll pry my MX20 moving map from my cold, dead hands.")

#6 Next one is tandem
(wish V would QB and CNC the RV-4 and RV-3 :( )

#7 Leak check the tanks better before painting :eek:

#8 Inverted oil system and flop pickup for tank.



Things I'd do the same:
1. Taildragger!
2. C/S
3. (as Bob said earlier) Autopilot, autopilot, autopilot!!!
 
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DeltaRomeo said:
What I'll do different next time....

#3 Not worry about scratching the parts so much

#4 Not worry about the *perfect* fit so much
(great quote: "We're just going to Denver, not Mars.")
Click to expand...

Amen to that Doug.

As has been said before: "Folks, it's just an airplane!" All the same laws and theories apply as with any other airplane.
 
steam gauges/less technology

Doug:

I'd sure be interested to hear why you mentioned 'more steam gauges/less technology'. I'm struggling with that dilemma right now. I'd love to have a Grand Rapids EFIS I and their engine monitor to match, but I'm not sure I want to tie that much up into one component that can fail all at once.

Thanks.
 
Had To??

had it to do all over again?[/QUOTE]

I plan to do it again and will be glad for the chance.
My RV 6 is light and flys great.
I plan to build a RV8 QB to replace the 6. Tandem is better for formation,and yanking, and banking.

Bigger gas tanks for CX country in the RV8.

I'll keep the round simple guages, Auto Pilot and Horizon from Jim Younkin and Digitrak. A new HARTZELL prop and a new 0-360

My plane is easy to maintaine and light. The new one will be simple and light too. Grove gear

The best thing to do is to come here and get it done fast.
It's my saying.... we are Just, going to Denver, not Mars, lets get it built.

Lead of get out of the way
Cheers
 
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Hummm,

Well, 400hrs of flying now on the hobbs and I find that 95% of time what I'm looking at is the formation station keeping points on my buddy's RV <g>. Seriously, I use the 'fancy' stuff about 2% of the time. I don't look at the Dynon (have an airspeed and altimeter also - I look at them as they're easier to read).

My two most-used guages are the MX20 display and the autopilot. Honest to goodness I rarely use half of what's in my panel. Now, soon I'm moving the Dynon over to the passenger side and putting in a TruTrak ADI. Primary reason is it's way easier to read in all modes IMHO (for the IFR ticket). So, I'm dumbing down the panel in one sense (but adding redundancy on the other), so I guess there's no hope for me <g>.

Beauty of the RV - I can make the next panel more simple. I can keep refining this one. Love this hobby...

B,
 
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Go the EIS route. The Grand Rapids is great. Biggest mistake I made was putting in steam gages - too much wiring and potential failure points. Also, in the long run the GR EIS is probably cheaper.
 
Grt Eis

Go the EIS route. The Grand Rapids is great. Biggest mistake I made was putting in steam gages - too much wiring and potential failure points. Also, in the long run the GR EIS is probably cheaper.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that with the traditional gauges you have to keep looking at them to see if anything is wrong, whereas the EIS will shout at you.
 
differently next time?

1. Wouldn't sweat priming etching, alodine, epoxy priming everything to death!

2. Would not have bought an oiless compressor. (way too LOUD) Would have spent the extra cabbage for a nice stand up piston unit for the corner of the shop.

3. Will throw the rivet gauges away and not stress each shop head with gauges, calipers, laser mics (just kidding), ...was being way too anal.

4. Will not buy Van's wiring kit (Too much $$$$ very little substance) but rather go SteinAir all the way.

5. Will plan all of my wiring / ant runs BEFORE I do anything else with the fuse and firewall.

Jeff N247DE
 
Next time....

I would buy the right tools and splurge a little.... I found after borrowing some tools, it would have been nice just to have them and it also makes you much more productive.

-- Pneumatic squeezer.... a must have IMHO.
-- Longeron yoke. When you need it, you need it!
-- Nutplate jigs. There are a lot of nutplates on an RV.
-- Right angle drill. Another must have.
-- A complete numbered drill set. Too often you need a particular size drill that you only need once or twice. In addition to the numerous #40's and #30's, a complete set would come in real handy.
-- Inspection mirror... comes in handy.
-- A good digital level
-- A small bending/box brake would be a nice have.

A lot of stuff you can pick up on eBay but don't be skimpy when it comes to tools. Fortuantly, I have some really nice builder friends who loan me tools when I need them.
 
This time....

I have a completed -6 (7 years flying 640 hrs) and am working on the fuselage of an RV-8A. My -6 is a basic IFR with GPS/Comm, NAV 11, Xponder and Anywhere Map (also Digitrak A/P). Here is what I'm doing different:

All electric panel, will still be basic IFR but with Trutrak ADI. ACS engine monitor instead of Van's steam gages (like the idea of MORE information).

2 comm radios (SL30 w/glideslope head and GPS/Comm).

Installing autopilot during construction (Digitrack of couse, they were kind enough to send monuting brackets ahead of A/P purchase).

Tandem this time, main reason wanted something different. Better loading
envelope is a plus as well as 4 more gallons of fuel.

Nose wheel. The down side to this is all the grief I'm taking from my rear wheel freinds. Don't care though, with over 1200 hrs of taildragger time,
been there done that.

Bended airfoil Hartzell connected to trusty and reliable 0-360 carburated
engine. Haven't decided on whether to buy a new Lyc or one of the clones.

My 180 hp/CS RV-6 has been a simple but extremely reliable and very low maintenance airplane. I'm not straying far from that concept on the -8A but am looking forward to new stuff like the Trutrack ADI and the ACS engine monitor.

Tom Prokop
RV-6 N910TP
RV-8A, Fuselage under contruction, N531PK reserved
Chino, CA
 
Next (1st) time

I am finally ramping up to get the tail kit for an RV7. I had convinced myself to do a slow build, day/night VFR, very light plane with CS 0-360. Is the reason many of you would choose QB next time that you have already done a slow build and know all the detail work or would you rather be out the $8K on the first plane to be in the air quicker?

John

(Basically I'm a penny pincher and having a hard time trading money for time, esp. on a pre-punched kit. Probably won?t decide till I'm into the tail to see how much I enjoy building)
 
Just say "NO" to a Quickbuild

john kelley said:
I am finally ramping up to get the tail kit for an RV7. I had convinced myself to do a slow build, day/night VFR, very light plane with CS 0-360. Is the reason many of you would choose QB next time that you have already done a slow build and know all the detail work or would you rather be out the $8K on the first plane to be in the air quicker?

John

(Basically I'm a penny pincher and having a hard time trading money for time, esp. on a pre-punched kit. Probably won?t decide till I'm into the tail to see how much I enjoy building)
Click to expand...

The day will come when I will build another RV. That RV will also be a slow build. I enjoy the process and already miss pounding those rivets. I know matched hole drilling technology and quickbuild kits have broadened the market considerably but like my slowbuild "Darla," I much prefer the challenge of a standard kit. Its just not me to accept credit (or blame, for that matter) for an advanced quickbuild kit suddenly plopped down in the driveway. I prefer the satisfaction of having done most of the work which includes many hundreds of parts, built the jigs, assembled the main wing spars without Phlogiston's help, layed out uncounted and unmatched hole patterns and setting 99.9% of all the rivets on the airplane. I'm leaning towards an RV-4 or RV-8 next. A quickbuild has its place but NOT in my garage! I'd rather spend the money on a bigger engine.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
One thing to factor in on quickbuild vs. slow build...

Although I too am definitely trying to pinch pennies, I'm starting to believe that the QB is a pretty good deal, particularly because it eliminates the potential to have to buy replacement parts when you mess up. For example, I chose to rebuild half of my horizontal stabilizer because I wasn't pleased with the riveting I did on one side's center ribs on the leading edge. Total cost... about $300. I then spent about $75 other bucks on other misc. replacement parts for the empennage. Granted, much of this was a "choice" by me largely for aesthetic reasons and it occurred during the stage with the steepest learning curve, but I would be very interested to know how much $$ in replacement parts (and, even worse, shipping and handling) people spend by the time they are done with the entire kit.

I'm not sure that I would do QB next time either (unless I building it with the intention of selling it quickly and for premium $$) because I enjoy the satisfaction of knowing I'm building the whole thing, but do factor replacement parts costs into your total cost "guestimate." That's one thing Van's cost estimator/calculator does not do.

Steve
 
john kelley said:
Is the reason many of you would choose QB next time that you have already done a slow build and know all the detail work or would you rather be out the $8K on the first plane to be in the air quicker?
Click to expand...
Speaking only for me, of course, I'd stay with a slob=build. I just like the feeling of "I built it myself" when these little parts on a shelf become a big plane taking up the garage. _I_ did that~

I also feel I have an intimate knowledg eof my aircraft that no one else can possibly have who didn't "slo-build". You get to know how every little -- and I mean little -- part relates to every other little part. How every system works etc.

I don't begrudge the QB community a bit. If they've got the money to spend, and that's how they want to send it, it's fine with me. It's their money and getting a plane flying earlier is part of it.

In my case, I'm strictly pay-as-you-go in the build process os there's no advantage to me emptying out my bank account for a QB. I still wouldn't be able to complete it until there's enough dough for the next subassembly.

BC
 
If there was a next time...

I would put in the autopilot. I have the capability and ticket (CFII) for instruments, but can't imagine it in the -4 without Otto. If ATC sprang an ammended clearance, I'd be lost trying to refold a chart in that -4 cockpit. Can it be done? Yes. Would it fit into my personal minimums? No-Way.

Big one...I'd put in the -6 tanks. 32 gallons in the Western states is NOT ENOUGH. Kind of okay for me, maybe, but not when flying with -6's and other tankers. I keep at least 45 minutes reserve in the West, allowing for 3/4" below top of tank so it doesn't piss out the last half gallon per side as the tank heats up, and that doesn't allow much X/C endurance. On a Sunday, in the West, it can be a LONG way between fuel stops.

Things I would definately do again...The Infinity stick grip. Love it. Best decision I made. Ditto with AnyWhereMap GPS. I love Garmin, but use it now only to drive the AnyWhereMap. BTW, don't even THINK about less than 5 point harness. Bumps around here will put you into the canopy faster than you can say "OWWWW!".

Jeff
N605RV
"Toucan"
 
I think about this everytime I see this thread. I did a simple nite VFR 7A with an 0-360 A1A, Hartzell BA C/S prop. I wouldn't do anything different. I love the plane as it is. It has been a great cross country VFR airplane. I even gave up on an idea of putting in an autopilot.

Roberta
Flying and LOVING IT!!!!
 
this thread is almost creeping into a qb/sb debate. maybe we need to
migrate it to the "never-ending discussion" header along with td or
tri-gear, tip-up or slider, or the primer wars.

nevertheless, i'll chime in anyway. i had originally planned a qb. i
never thought i would build at all 'cuz "i'd rather spend my time
flyin' than building" -- then i flew a 6a. still didn't really want to
consider taking "years and years" to build, but when i heard vans
had a qb option i started looking into it. i convinced myself that
at 500-800 hours (what they used to quote on the qb) i could do it.

when i got my empennage kit, i enjoyed the process so much that
i decided to do sb (with one cop-out -- i sold my other plane for
about $1500 more than i had to have, so i splurged and bought
the pre-built tanks.) i don't care if it takes a coupla extra years,
i'm havin' a ball.

mho,

john
 
plane sense

If I had it to do over again:
1. I wouldn't have waited so long to make the decision to build.
2. I would have waited longer to decide on my panel layout and instruments.
3. Re: #2. New equip. came on the market that I would have considered.
4. I wouldn't have waited so long to build. It is uncanny what you will learn during the process. I can't believe all of the stuff that I took for granted on the planes that I used to fly. My new knowledge may not save my bacon, but at least I will know for sure what fried it, if something goes wrong. I actually think you become a more serious and maybe a better pilot and certainly more aware by building. I wouldn't trade the experience or my airplane for anything.
 
What to do next time...

1-Start sooner-how many projects do I see offered by 'the estate of...' or 'lost medical.'
When I attended a builder course for my 50th birthday, only one guy was younger than me. Most of the 19 attendees were in their 60's and 70's. Apparently, many make the mistake of waiting for a convenient time, more money,etc.The clock is ticking guys! Build something today!
2-Plan to paint before final assembly. My friends who paint later end up with a huge hassle, longer down time than expected, and great frustration.
3-Preplan wire routes and draw a simple sketch on the back of a plan page so you will not encounter awkward wiring .
4-Wait as long as possible to select and purchase technology. Concentrate your efforts on building the airframe. New toys come out every day.
5-New system components cost more, but some bargain used stuff ends up in the trash. It eats up your time.Be selective and careful when buying used stuff.
6-Stop working when you get real tired or save a simple task for 'tired' work. Most mistakes and bad choices occur then.
7-Learn from others-Use free time to study the hundreds of websites available. Learn from the victories and errors of others. Likewise, hang with other builders.Even a few trips to the local FBO mx shop to view how production ac are built and serviced will be fruitful.
8-Team up with other builders. Help one another! Ask other builders' opinions. Why did they do something that way? Do not be a lone ranger!
9-Maintain important relations. That means sometimes you need to get away from the project to meet other's needs. Otherwise, conflict, frustration, and delay will come into your life. Maintain balance!
10-START SOONER!
 
Rv-6 N168tx

N168TX has been flying for 12 years. Didn't consider QB (it wasn't available) Wouldn't have done it anyway. I enjoy the building process. Tail dragger, tip-up, fixed pitch. Wouldn't do anything different today except that I would paint before flying.
Mel...DAR
 
I've built 7 airplanes (so far). N168TX is the only one that I flew before painting. #1 Once an airplane is flying it's difficult to stop flying long enough to paint. #2 Painting is much easier to do if you can turn parts. #3 It's difficult to get everything "clean" enough. The only negative to painting first is that you have to be very careful during assembly not to scratch "new" paint.
Mel...DAR
 
Prebuilt tanks....

johnp said:
so i splurged and bought the pre-built tanks.
Click to expand...

Are there really prebuilt tanks for the RV6? I didn't find them on the Vans site or did you have them built?

Chuck
 
I agree with Vern. Don't wait for retirement or the kids' graduation or whatever. Start building that kit or taking that cruise or learning to scuba. The clock is ticking and it doesn't stop. I'm envious of those folk who can get by on 4-5 hours sleep. Think of all the things they can accomplish if the time is spent wisely.

Steve
 
Thanks guys!!!

Good to hear about the unused Dynon's!!! I've been anguishing about that lately, especially since the better half said "oh, just go ahead and redo your panel!!!" God bless her, really. I actually decided not to do it, at the moment she said to go ahead and do it. I don't need a Dynon, I wanted a Dynon. And that's not enough reason after 14 years of building, it's her turn now. I put a lot of thought into my panel, and when I asked myself if I was happy with it, the answer was YES. Except for the mount I used for the AnyWhereMap. And I'm missing the clock I removed to make room for the new xpndr, and maybe I should do the upgrade to the Rocky Mountain MicroMonitor...

Hmmmmm.....
(Sound familiar, anyone???)

Jeff
 
armrest stiffeners?

anybody wished they'd strengthened (sp?) the armrests on a 7a?

heavy people pushing up or will the handles in my slider rollbar eliminate people from pushing up?
 
I'm pretty happy with my choices, although better options are now available only two years later. Like I used a high-dollar S-Tec AP. Now I'd go with Tru-Track. And I'd use electronic, solid-state gyros instead of a vacuum system (you absolutely will not believe how hard it is to bolt a vacuum pump onto a Lycoming). As far as QB vs SB -- heck, it took me almost 2000 hours to do a QB. Of course, maybe now I've learned enough so that next time I'll be able to just build it once!

Next time I won't obsess about stupid things. Like drilling out the same rivet three times because there really isn't enough room for a bucking bar, instead of just reaching for a pop rivet in the first place. Or like trying to hide my dimpled rivets under body filler (it just makes them more obvious). And now that I know about West Systems epoxy and that fabulous measured dispenser system, I won't be so afraid of fiberglass work. So next time, the minute I realize that worthless tailcone fairing is not going to fit, I will mold a new one in place instead of trying to fix it with a heat gun (of course, it waited until AFTER it was painted to warp!).

But mostly, I think next time I'll just try to appreciate the building process more, because I sure miss it now.
 
mark manda said:
anybody wished they'd strengthened (sp?) the armrests on a 7a?

heavy people pushing up or will the handles in my slider rollbar eliminate people from pushing up?
Click to expand...

I've heard a few people say this in the past. It only takes about 1/2 hour to add stiffener angle. I just added some .063 x 3/4" x 3/4" angle underneath the inboard lip of the arm rests. I didn't bother to tie them into the F-704 or F-705 bulkheads, but I've seen at least one person do that as well. I'll let you know in a couple years how it's working. :)
 
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