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  #11  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:26 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 4,301
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Hit this link for more on line restrictors. .040" is a good orifice size if you want to make your own. Any smaller will just clog faster.
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RV-7
Op Lims in hand 12-7-17
1st Flight 1-27-18
33/40 hrs
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:46 AM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 320
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Bill and all. We utilize -3 diameter hose for our PMAG MFP lines. The lines have a clear plastic extruded coating for abrasion protection. The stem diameter of a -3 fitting is very small and helps to dampen everything out. We have specially made -4 Flare fittings that fit into -3 hose so that we don't have to change out the fitting at the MFP sensor and can still keep the -3 diameter hose on a -4 diameter fitting. The same is true at the engine. We include a 45 degree steel elbow for the engine as the routing is a bit cleaner that way. In addition, we include the two AN Tees and the -3 fittings at the second tee end for attachment to the rubber hoses for the PMAGs.

This first image shows the lines and the tee setup at the engine and the MFP sensor



This second image shows the unfinished system awaiting the rubber hoses to connect to the PMAGs.

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Last edited by Aircraft Specialty : 01-06-2018 at 07:50 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-06-2018, 08:38 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,045
Default If I can add something--

The after crimp stem diameter of the -3 hose end is .079. Those that have used this setup, and on the original brazed tee we used to make, did not report any pulse anomalies so we left it as is. Yes, we can further restrict the orifice diameter if need be.
The question was asked why we changed from the brazed tee to the 'fitting'version. Well, honestly, making the brazed tee is labor intensive. Some clients had 1 PMag, some had 2, and some with 1, decided to add a 2nd one. With the brazed tee crimped inline, we would have to take that hose, cut out the single tee, add the dual port version, recrimp and return the hose. With the new 'fitting'version, using AN hose ends, its a simple matter of unscrewing the tee and replacing it with the dual port version. The outlet hose to the MAP sensor generally has enough slack that the extra length in the sender hose would matter.
One other thing---YES we have on some versions use teflon hose from the tee to the PMags. Since the tube on the PMag is sized for the vacuum hose included with the PMags, we decided to make a tube stub fitting that crimps on our teflon hose, and uses a short piece of the PMag hose for the connection. Gee--why would be do that? Well, some clients actually like the look of the braided hose, and weren't concerned over a few extra ounces of weight; the differences between the braided hose, and the vacuum hose. ( I guess if we had a PMag we could come up with a more improved version of this.) Yes, its does take alittle extra effort to remove the hose, and blow into it to set the timing, instead of just pulling off the vacuum hose.
One downside of this is it IS more expensive to use the teflon hose instead of the rubber vacuum hose for this system. Some of our clients have spent +-$2500 for the 2 PMags and WANTED something functional AND looked good. Another reason we changed to the 'fitting' version.

For you weight conscious builders--YEP plastic tees are available from most auto parts stores (Edelmann makes a large variety) for use with vacuum or plastic hose. Remember the plastic tees we had on our street cars in the early days? Yep they eventually break due to heat and cold----and some of you 'like' to fly in cold weather. Something to think about--as well as plastic in a FWF area. But with regular maintenance, its probably acceptable. NOT starting a flame war here!!

Tom
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Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
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www.tsflightlines.com
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  #14  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:55 PM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 320
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We updated our website to show more information about the PMAG setup for the RV-14 and RV-14A both in the single and dual configuration.

The info is located on the RV-14 Products page.

http://aircraftspecialty.com/rv-14.html

Here is a link directly to the Firewall forward information manual.

http://www.aircraftspecialty.com/PDF...RV-14%20FF.pdf

As always, we are happy to answer any questions or build custom sizes for different configurations.

Have a great weekend and happy building!
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Your Source for Custom CNC parts, CNC cut instrument panels and labeling, Teflon fuel/oil hoses, Headsets, and many other items for Experimental Aircraft.
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:47 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 11,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova RV View Post
I have the hoses from Steve and Aircraft Specialty for my 14A and dual P-Mags and everything fits perfectly and is a nice upgrade from the stock hoses.
Did you change the configuration of the P-mags to match your engine? Neither the A or B configuration is close to the required timing for an angle valve engine.

PM me you phone number, if you want to talk about this.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:01 AM
Nova RV Nova RV is offline
 
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Location: Leesburg, VA
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Bill, this is something that I know nothing about as the engine was delivered by Lycoming with one Pmag and a std mag and went through the test runs so equipped. The Pmag was delivered in configuration B (jumper out) so I am guessing that's how they did the test runs. I talked to EMag and they confirmed the jumper should be IN on the engine (configuration A). Neither the factory nor Emag has said anything about neither configuration being correct. I'm not doubting you as I don't know this stuff and at this point I can only go by what Lycoming or Emag has said even though they differ.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:54 AM
Larry DeCamp's Avatar
Larry DeCamp Larry DeCamp is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clinton, Indiana
Posts: 624
Default MAP orafice question ?

I have 2 Pmags and nice braided -3 hose from TS with braised tee for soft hose attachments. I pressed an .040 orafice in the fitting at the cylinder head. Pmags work fine, but the EIC tells a curious story re: MAP stability. I even put more orafice in the MAP line to the sensor and no joy to stabilize the MAP reading on the EIC. The coolest idea I have seen on this tread is the “hypodermic needle” for a long/ Small orafice. Hopefully this will help some one
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Clinton, IN
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:54 AM
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Raymo Raymo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Richmond Hill, GA (KLHW)
Posts: 1,667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry DeCamp View Post
I have 2 Pmags and nice braided -3 hose from TS with braised tee for soft hose attachments. I pressed an .040 orafice in the fitting at the cylinder head. Pmags work fine, but the EIC tells a curious story re: MAP stability. I even put more orafice in the MAP line to the sensor and no joy to stabilize the MAP reading on the EIC. The coolest idea I have seen on this tread is the “hypodermic needle” for a long/ Small orafice. Hopefully this will help some one
I have Tom's excellent lines as well but not the EIC. I wonder why the "A" curve is not the default (jumper out) when nearly all installs are recommended to use it.

A small inline fuel filter can be used to buffer the MAP, too.
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RV-7A - Slider - N495KL - First flt 27 Jan 17
O-360-A4M w/ Catto 3 blade NLE, AFP FM-150 FI, 1 PMag, Vetterman Trombone Exh, SkyTech starter,
PlanePower Alt, FlightLines Interior, James cowl & plenum
All lines by TSFlightLines
NSDQ

"The object of the game, gentlemen, is not to cheat death: the object is not to let him play."
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:54 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 11,327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova RV View Post
Bill, this is something that I know nothing about as the engine was delivered by Lycoming with one Pmag and a std mag and went through the test runs so equipped. The Pmag was delivered in configuration B (jumper out) so I am guessing that's how they did the test runs. I talked to EMag and they confirmed the jumper should be IN on the engine (configuration A). Neither the factory nor Emag has said anything about neither configuration being correct. I'm not doubting you as I don't know this stuff and at this point I can only go by what Lycoming or Emag has said even though they differ.
Even with the jumper in, the P-mags have way too much advance for an angle valve engine. Lycoming should know this but they haven't seem to have taken the time to learn the P-mags.

I'll PM you my number and you can give me a call so we can discuss your timing.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 01-15-2018 at 10:51 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:13 PM
KeithB KeithB is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 159
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I have a Superior XP-400 with dual P-mags. I installed the jumper (less advance) to help keep temps under control during break-in. After about 30 hours when it was clear I did not have CHT issues, I removed the jumper for max advance. The engine provides great performance, excellent CHTs,and runs very well lean-of-peak with very nice efficiency. I’m curious why do you say this advanced timing is way too much for an angle valve engine?
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