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Newbie Riveting Question

A

amaris

Well Known Member
Well, I've taken the first step on the long road. This is my first time riveting, and thought I'd seek the input of the group here.

I've started the Van's toolbox project and was having a few riveting issues on the hinge. I've used the squeezer on them and while most of them are good, there are a few where the shop head is overly flat. I felt like I was using the same force on the squeezers.

Any suggestions for more consistent rivets? How about to keep arms and hands from falling off after squeezing way more rivets than on the toolbox?
Thanks.
Allen
IMG_2662.jpg
 
It looks like that rivet wasn't set level on the manufactured side when you squeezed it.

The solution is when you squeeze it, make sure you apply slight pressure on the manufactured side (the fat part that goes in the dimple). The makes it so that rivet remains flush with the skin while you squeeze it.

If the head does not remain flush with the skin during the squeeze process, you will get exactly the result you got.

Just takes some practice.

And for not being tired... set your squeezer in such a way that when you fully squeeze the handles together, it sets the rivet at exactly the correct depth. You have to experiment a couple times to get it right, but it reduces the amount of force required to squeeze the rivets compared to when you dont have it set correctly. Other than that, you just have to get used it it. You will use the rivet gun for most riveting anyway.
 
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With manual squeezers, I've always adjusted them so the handles just touch one another when the rivet is fully set. In other words, I set them up with a mechanical stop to prevent over-squeezing.

On my squeezers, you rotate the shaft that holds the set to determine that built-in stop.
 
Another option

Something else you can do that helped me is to mount the squeezer upside down in a vice which will allow you to hold the manufactured head down flat against the lower die with one hand and start the squeeze with the other.

6762jk.jpg


By the way, this is not me in the picture. It's my wife who is a little vertically challenged.
 
I just got the pneumatic squeezer to set the rivets it uses the same yokes as the Avery hand model. If you are not working long sessions, then probably not an issue, but I like tools to ease the process. Grip strength will develop regardless.

Is that a CNC mill in the background?
 
BillL said:
I just got the pneumatic squeezer to set the rivets it uses the same yokes as the Avery hand model. If you are not working long sessions, then probably not an issue, but I like tools to ease the process. Grip strength will develop regardless.

Is that a CNC mill in the background?
Click to expand...

It is, its a Tormach. I have the same setup with my pneumatic squeezer and love it!
 
Thanks

Thanks for the input everyone! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get into the actual build. I've got the training project next to get on.

I was thinking about building something to hold the squeezer on a flat table, but I'll give the vice option a try first.
 
Practice

amaris said:
Thanks for the input everyone! I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get into the actual build. I've got the training project next to get on.

I was thinking about building something to hold the squeezer on a flat table, but I'll give the vice option a try first.
Click to expand...

The vice idea is really cool as are so many other tricks. I found a neat way to back rivet universal head rivets.
That said, don't skip traditional riveting practice. You need good gun/bar skills.
If you don't want to pound on the tool box, buy some scrap and practice.
 
If your holes are slightly oversize, or maybe over deburred, the rivet body will expand sideways more and you can get a shop head that is not high enough.

Try the same part with a rivet that is 0.5 longer.

Also I see that it is a soft hinge being riveted. Repeat the same experiment with aircraft aluminum for both parts being riveted.
 
Riveting

The rivet in the picture is definitely over driven or too short a rivet for the thickness of material. However, I think you are using the wrong end of the rivet gauge for dimpled rivets. I think this end of the gauge is for measuring the shop head of a rivet that does not end in a dimpled hole. Try the other end (the round hole) and ensure the shop head diameter is correct.

Also, be aware that both the diameter and head height have a tolerance. Have a look at Table II and III in MIL-R-47196A on the Vans site.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm
 
Specs

terrye said:
The rivet in the picture is definitely over driven or too short a rivet for the thickness of material. However, I think you are using the wrong end of the rivet gauge for dimpled rivets. I think this end of the gauge is for measuring the shop head of a rivet that does not end in a dimpled hole. Try the other end (the round hole) and ensure the shop head diameter is correct.

Also, be aware that both the diameter and head height have a tolerance. Have a look at Table II and III in MIL-R-47196A on the Vans site.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/Specs.htm
Click to expand...

Terry is correct about the specs. Minimum diameter is important.
The notch in the tool in the photo should be minimum height. Double check against the specs.
 
This picture dates back to the original scan/web version of the mil-spec for rivets I created with Brian Yablon, since borrowed by Vans and many others on the web..

It's not a part of the spec, but was an introduction picture and is still very relevant if you use the rivet gauge shown in the original post -

cs_rivet.gif
 
wirejock said:
Terry is correct about the specs. Minimum diameter is important.
The notch in the tool in the photo should be minimum height. Double check against the specs.
Click to expand...

Thanks, guys. I used the rivets called out by Van's and since many of them turned out fine and only a few are out of range, I'll assume it's operator error. I'm still getting the hang of the hand squeezer, so not sure how much force is required to over squeeze them yet.

And if someone wouldn't mind clarifying the gauge, but everything I've seen and read was that the hole is for checking diameter of the shop head the the notch is for checking the height of it. I haven't seen anything mentioned that it's not to be used on a dimpled hole (other than the handy picture Gil posted).

I will be practicing more on scraps once I finish the control surface practice kit!
 
Rivet gauge

amaris said:
Thanks, guys. I used the rivets called out by Van's and since many of them turned out fine and only a few are out of range, I'll assume it's operator error. I'm still getting the hang of the hand squeezer, so not sure how much force is required to over squeeze them yet.

And if someone wouldn't mind clarifying the gauge, but everything I've seen and read was that the hole is for checking diameter of the shop head the the notch is for checking the height of it. I haven't seen anything mentioned that it's not to be used on a dimpled hole (other than the handy picture Gil posted).

I will be practicing more on scraps once I finish the control surface practice kit!
Click to expand...

The hole is ideal diameter. 1.5 X Diameter
The notch should be minimum height.
Most gauge sets also have a rivet length gauge. It looks like a square with corners cut out. It's used to judge the ideal shank length. Insert a rivet and place the gauge on the shop side. The protruding shank should fit the cut out on the gauge pretty close.
Check out the rivet dimension table in the Mil spec document mentioned before. It's very important. Keep a copy handy.
 
wirejock said:
The hole is ideal diameter. 1.5 X Diameter
The notch should be minimum height.
Most gauge sets also have a rivet length gauge. It looks like a square with corners cut out. It's used to judge the ideal shank length. Insert a rivet and place the gauge on the shop side. The protruding shank should fit the cut out on the gauge pretty close.
Check out the rivet dimension table in the Mil spec document mentioned before. It's very important. Keep a copy handy.
Click to expand...

I bought a used set of tools and it didn't have the length gauge but will pick one up on the next order of "stuff".

I laminated a copy of the table and stuck it to the fridge in the garage!
 
Gauge

amaris said:
I bought a used set of tools and it didn't have the length gauge but will pick one up on the next order of "stuff".

I laminated a copy of the table and stuck it to the fridge in the garage!
Click to expand...

Allen

Save your money for airplane parts. Make a guage. If gou can't find the dimensions, send me a PM. It's just a square with the corners cut out. You only need two corners for #3 and #4 rivets.
 
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