What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Smoke system oil

olyolson

olyolson

Well Known Member
Friend
Been using regular smoke oil from Blazing Oil at the SUS airport. I have one of Marvin's Smoke System Helper systems in my -4 and http://www.smoke-system-helper.com/works flawlessly. Had a recent discussion with him about oil. For small topoffs he said it would be OK to use new, clean Automatic transmission fluid, just saw a case of it at Sam's cheap. He aslo said I could mix it with my smoke oil if I just needed a top off.

Anybody have any thoughts on this or been using ATF?

Oly

PS- you guys need to call him if you want an I expensive quality system that he can custom make to your specs. He did mine perfectly, go to the link below now. You know you want one!

http://www.smoke-system-helper.com/
 
Last edited:
I'd be concerned about the flammability of ATF vapor. Commercial smoke oil is mostly paraffinic mineral oil whose vapors are still flammable but not quite as easily set alight as ATF vapor which has a known history of setting cars on fire when it leaks onto hot exhaust systems.

I've found a somewhat affordable mineral oil in the form of veterinary grade mineral oil sold for horses at the local Attwoods and Tractor Supply Company stores for about $15/gallon jug. It smokes just like commercial smoke oil and doesn't leave any worse of a mess on the belly of the plane either.
 
I know one guy that uses Used Waste ATF and loves it. I have tired cheap Walmart ATF mixed 25% and did not like it. I ended up with the bottom of the airplane RED like the ATF I put in. It dripped all over the hangar floor.

Not sure how it will work for you. IF you try it, please report back.
 
I tried used ATF that was filtered and it wasn't happy at all. I then tried new ATF and had a big mess and poor results. I found the injectors coked up within 4-5 gallons. I cleaned the injectors well and went with smoke oil ($6@g) and no more problems. Maybe if I had went with new ATF from the start it would have been fine but I was not up for another mess. I have access to hundreds gallons of free hydraulic oil but it seems a little thicker and I just haven't tried it yet
 
I use concrete release oil which is just paraffin oil, I have used this for over a year and it works good.

A friend of mine is in the concrete business and he buys the stuff in bulk so if I need 5 gallons it is a great deal.

might not be as dense as smoke oil but it works well.

Smilin' Jack
 
oh boy.... Sure hope the EPA and any other environmental groups are not monitoring this site........ (ref the ATF)
 
Smilin' Jack said:
I use concrete release oil which is just paraffin oil, I have used this for over a year and it works good.

A friend of mine is in the concrete business and he buys the stuff in bulk so if I need 5 gallons it is a great deal.

might not be as dense as smoke oil but it works well.

Smilin' Jack
Click to expand...
OK, here's my 2 cents. After having three separate and evolving smoke delivery systems in my plane over the last 6-8 years, and having tried probably 10-12 different fluids, I find that the best three in overall value ($$/smoke plume) are commercial smoke oils, concrete form release oil, and then diesel. I've tried ATF, vegetable oils, waste motor oils, custom blended white oils, baby oil, "mineral" oil, etc, etc. And none work as well as the three listed above.

But I am always listening for new ideas that work.
 
Last edited:
Diesel Smoke

Low Pass said:
OK, here's my 2 cents. After having three separate and evolving smoke delivery systems in my plane over the last 6-8 years, and having tried probably 10-12 different fluids, I find that the best three in overall value ($$/smoke plume) are commercial smoke oils, concrete form release oil, and then diesel. I've tried ATF, vegetable oils, waste motor oils, custom blended white oils, baby oil, "mineral" oil, etc, etc. And none work as well as the three listed above.

But I am always listening for new ideas that work.
Click to expand...

Diesel as smoke oil ... I have heard about tanks using diesel for a smoke screen before but I can't help but worry about the fire hazard
 
Scott-12 said:
Diesel as smoke oil ... I have heard about tanks using diesel for a smoke screen before but I can't help but worry about the fire hazard
Click to expand...
Works just dandy. With a properly operating airplane and smoke system, where would it get oxygen to burn?
 
Low Pass said:
Works just dandy. With a properly operating airplane and smoke system, where would it get oxygen to burn?
Click to expand...

Indeed it does work, but as noted before doesn't have anywhere near the density or "hang time" as paraffin. ATF works ok too, but if you're relegated to using either ATF or Diesel, I've found a mixture of both is a good idea. I too have had lots of trials/errors on oil, in the end I've just bitten the bullet and bought the good stuff from Rozie (B25Flyer here on VAF). Yes it's a little more than other stuff, but it's sure nice to have the same smoke the big airshow boys - and it's relatively clean (if you don't absolutely dial up the pump to a crazy high volume).

I think anything is better than the old timer's favorite (that being the nasty old cancer causing transformer oil)...which is bad juju! :)

Cheers,
Stein.
 
Neal@F14 said:
How bad does diesel vapor stink when used as smoke oil?
Click to expand...
In my plane, it's noticeable but not too terrible. Vent the tank overboard and don't maneuver where smoke is drawn into the aft fuselage, and it's not too bad. I've never had anyone say they can smell it on me after flying with it.
 
Last edited:
My RV-6 pulls quite a bit of smoke from the smoke system into the cabin from the tailcone and the flap pushrod holes. I should probably work on sealing those up because it probably also gets a fair amount of normal engine exhaust in the cabin from those leaks too.
 
I have to agree with Neil here, I too ocassionally will almost get a lot of fumes on the inside of the cockpit. other times at different airspeeds I get nothing. I have tried to seal up the back end of my 7 but still working on it. it's not perfect yet but getting better.
Jack
 
For the smoke into the cockpit issue, check out this thread, if you haven't seen it before. Great ideas from Pat Hatch and others on sealing a SBS slider (adaptable to other models too). Sealing the tailcone is challenging, but stopping or reducing the outflow from the cockpit leaks makes a big difference in smoke traveling forward to the cabin. I used to go nearly "IFR" in the cockpit during smokin' shows, and have been able to reduce it to near zero (thanks Pat!).

As for diesel or ATF: I found diesel to stink, both sitting in the tank and when smoking. Cheaper, yes…not worth the smell to me. Have used ATF/smoke oil mixes that clogged the injector in 5 seconds (literally). Others have had success, but have done a lot of extra filtering, I believe.

The good stuff is frustratingly expensive, but in the end, worth it, IMHO. Disparate delivery locations makes group buying difficult, but sure would love to find a way!

Cheers,
Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top