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  #11  
Old 08-30-2016, 10:21 AM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
I am a bit surprised that this http://www.surefly.aero/ product did not get more traction in this forum.
I was in Oshkosh this year and missed it but it looks very promising.
What is remarkable is the availability of 4 and 6 cylinder units at this time and the certification process well underway.
I have a slick magneto with impulse coupling and the associated SB with 250 hour inspection and a slick rep who literally discourages the use of a slick mag
on an IO- 540 with counterweights. Others are waiting for 6 cylinder P-mags
for years and no end in sight and here is a plug in replacement for a mag and
I see no more than 3 posts on the subject.
I am aware of the PP alternator and Skytec starter problems but is this enough reason to discount this exciting alternative to one hundred year old magneto technology?
I am coming up on the 500 hour inspection cycle on my slick and I am seriously considering a surefly magneto replacement.
What say you???
There are other posts on the forum about the SureFly, doing a bit of searching should get you more information. There's very little info on the website, wonder why? There has been some concerns about the surefly aggressive advance map which may cause high CHT's as does the pmags on some installations. There appears to be no programming capabilities. Something that hasn't been talked about is that the surefly uses a Slick plug wire cap harness, magnetos use solid core wire whereas EI's require resistor core wire. So, is the installer supposed to gut a Slick cap and replace the wires, making a whole new harness? That would be a job considering quality resistor wire is larger than aviation solid core wire. The jury is still out on the new Surefly.

Last edited by FasGlas : 08-30-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2016, 01:44 PM
ReidVaitor ReidVaitor is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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Default Slick harness

FasGlass- I dont think I understand your concern about the slick wires- " is the installer supposed to gut a Slick cap and replace the wires, making a whole new harness?"

No- you use everything that is already there. I know having new spark plugs gapped for .036 helps but Jason told me I could leave my current spark plugs and never gap them each year until they are tossed and at that point buy the new plugs.
I took away that its a electronic ignition magneto- only replace the magneto and leave everything else "as is".

Pascal
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2016, 02:06 PM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReidVaitor View Post
FasGlass- I dont think I understand your concern about the slick wires- " is the installer supposed to gut a Slick cap and replace the wires, making a whole new harness?"

No- you use everything that is already there. I know having new spark plugs gapped for .036 helps but Jason told me I could leave my current spark plugs and never gap them each year until they are tossed and at that point buy the new plugs.
I took away that its a electronic ignition magneto- only replace the magneto and leave everything else "as is".

Pascal
The problem is not the plugs or the gap. The problem is using solid core plug wires. You do not use solid core plug wires on electronic ignitions. If you have to use a Slick harness cap to fit on the SureFly case you would have to remove and replace the plug wires. Yes, you can use the Slick harness just as it is but solid core wire causes lots of RFI and produces lower energy to the gap. Magneto electronics are far different than EI electronics. The RFI can be so bad with solid core plug wires that prop balancers will get corrupt timing signals. Happened to me a few times trying to balance customers planes. There are lots of unanswered questions about the SureFly at this point. Is it a magneto with electronic "Points" or a real electronic ignition?

Last edited by FasGlas : 08-31-2016 at 02:11 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2016, 02:21 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
.....
Is it a magneto with electronic "Points" or a real electronic ignition?
Does the difference between the two make any difference to us as users?

If it's a solid state device with no moving parts and has the ability to change the timing curve do we really care?
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2016, 02:56 PM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Does the difference between the two make any difference to us as users?

If it's a solid state device with no moving parts and has the ability to change the timing curve do we really care?
First off, if it plugs into the back of the engine (gears) it has moving parts. Hall effect, magnets, gears, rotor... There is a moving shaft, what is it connected to? We don't know, it's not listed. I think anyone laying down the money for a SureFly should have an idea what they are buying. The site states nearly nothing about this ignition. It might be incredible but it might be junk. There are differences in all types of ignitions and these differences change how they are installed and used. And there's lots more to an ignition than just changing timing. Emags changed timing and they were junk, everyone was a failure waiting to happen.
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2016, 03:22 PM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Does the difference between the two make any difference to us as users?

If it's a solid state device with no moving parts and has the ability to change the timing curve do we really care?
You do if you are trying to manage RFI. I know non resistor plugs (for example) are a red flag for EI, and there is a warning right on the NGK website saying so. I also have experienced Pmags having a stroke when using non resistor plugs.

I'm not suggesting the SURE-FLY is anything other than it claims, but you sure do want to know what you are dealing with before you start mixing and matching plugs, wires, etc.
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2016, 06:35 PM
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grubbat grubbat is offline
 
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I have had great service out of my Pmags and don't consider the product junk at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
...........Emags changed timing and they were junk, everyone was a failure waiting to happen.
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2016, 07:19 PM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Originally Posted by grubbat View Post
I have had great service out of my Pmags and don't consider the product junk at all.
Let's not confuse the two. Emags are the first version which later evolved into Pmags. They were junk and most all of them failed.
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2016, 12:19 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
You do if you are trying to manage RFI. I know non resistor plugs (for example) are a red flag for EI, and there is a warning right on the NGK website saying so. I also have experienced Pmags having a stroke when using non resistor plugs.

I'm not suggesting the SURE-FLY is anything other than it claims, but you sure do want to know what you are dealing with before you start mixing and matching plugs, wires, etc.
The only thing you mention is RFI.

I'm sure the FAA certification (and early sales) process will give a quick knowledge of any problems using the stock wires and plugs - if that is what the certified installation manual will call out.
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2016, 12:25 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
First off, if it plugs into the back of the engine (gears) it has moving parts. Hall effect, magnets, gears, rotor... There is a moving shaft, what is it connected to? We don't know, it's not listed. I think anyone laying down the money for a SureFly should have an idea what they are buying. The site states nearly nothing about this ignition. It might be incredible but it might be junk. There are differences in all types of ignitions and these differences change how they are installed and used. And there's lots more to an ignition than just changing timing. Emags changed timing and they were junk, everyone was a failure waiting to happen.
From the web site -

The magneto itself isn't inherently unsafe. What makes an externally powered electronic ignition more safe than a mag is the fact that it is simply never opened-up, inspected and potentially rebuilt/overhauled like a magneto is every 500 hours. No mechanical parts to wear = Zero maintenance = a 0% chance of introducing a maintenance-related ignition failure.

It has a shaft that rotates, but probably not much else that moves. No rotor/distributor is needed since it's a wasted spark system with multiple coils. The Hall effect device that you mention is not usually a moving part.

I think the FAA certification will sort things out, something the eMags you mention never did...
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Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
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