Hartzell BA restriction

Hi Everyone

I have an RV4 with an O360 180hp motor and a new 72 inch Hartzell BA prop from Vans (PROP C2YR-1BFP/F74972).

The only restriction I can find on this prop is the following:

Restrictions:
The following restrictions apply to the HC-M2YR-1BFP/F7497 propeller on the RV aircraft with Lycoming IO-360-A1A 200 HP engine: ?Continuous operations is prohibited above 24 inches manifold pressure between 2350 and 2550 rpm.?

I know this might be a stupid question in this case but I often get conflicting stories, so due to the fact that I only have an O360 and not an IO360, I will therefor have no restrictions on my engine/prop combo?

Thank you

Call Hartzell

It's tough to beat the words from the horse's mouth. You really need to call Hartzell's Tech Support folks at 937-778-4376. Tell them the prop (including model number), the engine, and whether you're using normal magnetos or electronic ignition/PMag. They will tell you the specific MAP/RPM restrictions for that combination.

Limitations

Thank you so much guys. I will email Hartzell today with my combo. Thanks for the helpful post RV8JD.

We have a couple combos like mine here in South Africa with a few
people saying different things. Agreed that the best will be from the horses mouth.

Kind Regards

RV8JD said:

The snippets below are from the Hartzell Propeller FAA TCDS P-920, Page 8.

The first row in the table fits your situation (I think) and there are no limitations, as long as nothing in Note 9 at the top of Page 8 (reproduced below) apply to your engine. If one of those do, then call Hartzell.

"Note 9: Special Limits

Table of Propeller ? Engine Combinations Approved Vibrationwise for Use on Normal Category Single Engine Tractor Aircraft

The maximum and minimum propeller diameters that can be used from a vibration standpoint are shown below. No reduction below the minimum diameter listed is permissible, since this figure includes the diameter reduction allowable for repair purposes.

The engine models listed below are the configurations on the engine type certificate unless specifically stated otherwise. Modifications to the engine or airframe that alter the power of the engine models listed below during any phase of operation have the potential to increase propeller stresses and are not approved by this list. Such modifications include, but are not limited to, the addition of a turbocharger or turbonormalizer, increased boost pressure, increased compression ratio, increased RPM, altered ignition timing, electronic ignition, full authority digital engine controls (FADEC), or tuned induction or exhaust. Also, any change to the mass or stiffness of the crankshaft/counterweight assembly is not approved by this list."​

Click to expand...

Wonder why there's no M1B listed. Did I miss it?

Do get their guidance. The first 2-blade Hartzell "Claw" for 4 cylinders was owned by a friend on his S-1T Pitts in the '90s.

It repeatedly caused all sorts of magneto issues as it put vibrations on the accessory case area that were new at the time.

The composite 2 blade installations 2 decades and many thousand operating hours later should be well-knowns to Hartzell.

From the master:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=537893&postcount=4

RV8JD said:

Thanks for the info.

Re: "This is one of a few configurations that is not yet in Note 9 of TCDS P-920."

There have been several revisions to the TCDS P-920 since that post was made by Les Doud of Hartzell on 4/29/2011, the latest being Rev 39 on 7/19/2019. I wonder why they have not added it yet?

Click to expand...

Maybe it's "approved" but not certified? If it was "approved" with the LSE Plasma III, then it probably is not considered a "certified" combo since an engine running the LSE ignition is not in a certified configuration.

Skylor

For us experimental builders, this is what matters most:

Yes, the 7497 is approved on the stock IO-360-M1B without any restrictions.

Click to expand...

I did get this info from Les years ago, I just wonder why they've never listed this combo in their documentation, since *it's what Van's sells as the "stock" configuration*.

I actually couldn't care less about type certificate data sheets and all that, as long as I have something from the manufacturer that says it's okay to run at any MAP/RPM combo.

RV8JD said:

I understand that the configuration with LSE EI's would not be included in the TCDS. But Les Doud states in his post that although the test was done with LSE EI's (and that configuration is approved), the the stock IO-360-M1B with mags was approved by similarity since the EI's produce higher stresses. So the stock IO-360-M1B with mags should have made it to the TCDS, as Les seems to have expected by the wording in his post (shown below).

"Yes, the 7497 is approved on the stock IO-360-M1B without any restrictions. This is one of a few configurations that is not yet in Note 9 of TCDS P-920. We approved it with the LSE Plasma III so a stock engine with magnetos is approved by similarity (experience has shown electronic ignitions produce higher stresses).

We have an information sheet that I can provide if you need one? Just e-mail me at [email protected].

Les Doud"​

Click to expand...

"Approved" by similarity is good enough for the experimental world, but P-920 is a Type Certificate Data Sheet. I strongly suspect the FAA won't "certify" by similarity in this case.

Skylor