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High School Liability

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dweyant

Well Known Member
I need some help.

I teach a PLTW Engineering program at a Texas High School. We are trying to partner with Eagles Nest out of Houston and build an RV-12 as part of the PLTW Aerospace program next year.

I "thought" we had everything ready to go for next year, including commitments for the money to build the plane, but this morning I was told that the district can't get the lawyers to sign off on the build.

They are saying the districts liability policy will not cover anything with airplanes, including any injuries the kids suffer while the plane is under construction.

I managed to get them to delay saying no completely so I could look into other liability coverage options.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I might be able to get some sort of an umbrella policy that would make the district happy?

Thanks,

-Dan
 
After seeing the Lanceair that was built by Boeing Engineers have to be donated to the Museum of Flight due to Boeing lawyers having the same fears...

In fact, that one only flew once with a very experienced test pilot before being parked. They couldn't even sell it, due to the liability to Boeing as the builder.

I'd love to hear if anyone has any advice around it, but it seems like a pretty strong case against the build.
 
You need to talk to Ernie Butcher. Goes by Special Delivery here. He's managed to satisfy the school lawyers.

But I'm not surprised with your findings. Public entities are very risk averse. And anything with "airplane" on it will attract sharks, err, lawyers.
 
We are working on a similar issue here in San Diego. We have two school districts interested in building however both risk management departments had advised against.

Both districts are aware of the success at Eagles Nest Projects and Aviation Nation. Although I have provided both districts with information about both organizations, I recommended they have their insurance gurus contact them direct.

It will be a shame if we can't pull this off. We have the cooperation of the school principals, shop teachers, and mentor support group. One school has the funds in place to purchase a kit and was ready to roll this fall. Now it looks like our next target date will be in 2017.
 
I realize there are some advantages (mostly credit benefits for the student participants) to operating under the umbrella of a school district but these types of liability worries and red tape are largely why the TEENFLIGHT program has been operated on its own without school system involvement.

A number of our students have gotten school credit for their involvement. Many school districts do this by evaluating an outside of school activity on a case by case basis.
 
Mystery Acronym

FWIW I was wondering what PLTW stands for & please respond ASAP.
IMHO I'm just being a PITA, LOL:D
 
Dan,

It is indeed sad that Georgetown ISD (TX) has assumed this position. You've worked countless hours, flew some of your district administrators to Houston to visit the Clear Springs HS build, and have garnered tremendous community support. For the record, this is the first time any school district has declined based on liability issues to integrate our program into the lab portion of Project Lead the Way's Aerospace curriculum. In fact, PLTW fully supports our program and we've consistently demonstrated higher PLTW test scores in schools offering PLTW Aerospace and who participate in our program. There are times however, and this may just be one of those times, where the dynamics of the management team are not in harmony. Patience Dan, this too shall pass.

We had this discussion earlier today but the following information may be of interest to VAF readers: I don't have first hand information, but logic tells me that most Texas school districts are underwritten by the same or a select few underwriters. Following is a list of Texas school districts who apparently have no liability issues with our program: Clear Creek ISD (TX), a very large district in the Houston area on their fourth build; McKinney ISD (TX), another large district nearing the completion of their first build; and Granbury ISD (TX), a relatively small district who just approved their first build to begin this Fall.

Please don't let this set back discourage you from attending PLTW Aero training this summer. PLTW is a recognized world leader in STEM programs and curriculum offerings and the addition of the aerospace curriculum at Georgetown would be a tremendous asset to your other PLTW offerings. Keep up the great work!
 
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Eagle's Nest Projects - More than just academic credit

Interestingly enough Scott, the manner in which we implement Eagle's Nest Projects into a school's existing curriculum eliminates all risk to Eagle's Nest Projects et. al. during the build process and the school district has no additional risk. When the airplane leaves the school classroom, it is owned and operated by Eagle's Nest Projects. We then assume all risks and hold the school harmless. And yes, there are many other benefits to conducting the build as a lab portion to an existing curriculum; student accountability, academic credit, dual credit opportunities, sharing the build with other students at the school and with students at other district campuses, etc. etc. Eagle's Nest Projects is not an aviation program... it's a STEM education program that builds student, school, and community pride. Eagle's Nest Projects is a community effort that empowers high school students to become more than they ever dreamed possible and it launches them on a pathway of success in their chosen field. Interesting factoid; each of our builds at Clear Springs High School will be viewed by 3,000 to 5,000 students, parents, and community leaders. Our other campuses report similar numbers.

And in closing, here's two of my treasured experiences

VAF Link >> HERE
VAF Link >> HERE

rvbuilder2002 said:
I realize there are some advantages (mostly credit benefits for the student participants) to operating under the umbrella of a school district but these types of liability worries and red tape are largely why the TEENFLIGHT program has been operated on its own without school system involvement. <snip>
Click to expand...
 
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Special Delivery said:
Interestingly enough Scott, the manner in which we implement Eagle's Nest Projects into a school's existing curriculum eliminates all risk to Eagle's Nest Projects et. al. during the build process and the school district has no additional risk. When the airplane leaves the school classroom, it is owned and operated by Eagle's Nest Projects. We then assume all risks and hold the school harmless. And yes, there are many other benefits to conducting the build as a lab portion to an existing curriculum; student accountability, academic credit, dual credit opportunities, sharing the build with other students at the school and with students at other district campuses, etc. etc. Eagle's Nest Projects is not an aviation program... it's a STEM education program that builds student, school, and community pride. Eagle's Nest Projects is a community effort that empowers high school students to become more than they ever dreamed possible and it launches them on a pathway of success in their chosen field. Interesting factoid; each of our builds at Clear Springs High School will be viewed by 3,000 to 5,000 students, parents, and community leaders. Our other campuses report similar numbers.

And in closing, here's two of my treasured experiences

VAF Link >> HERE
VAF Link >> HERE
Click to expand...

The Eagles Nest programs are great programs, but all of the benefits you list aren't exclusive to operating a build program in a school environment or even under the umbrella of Eagles Nest for that matter, and that the seemingly one exclusive benefit (academic credit), isn't, because it can even be obtained outside of a school program.

My point wasn't to be negative about operating a program within a school. It was to point out that there are many ways to operate a program like this, and as many groups around the country and abroad have found, there is no one way fits all.

I think we need to just focus on the idea of promoting and encouraging this type of project regardless of where it is taking place and how it is structured.

A big high 5 from me to anyone that is (or has) been involved in a teen build project (regardless of what it is called or what the structure of it is/was). And I want to encourage more people to do so.
This was the primary motivation of my post, that people don't give up on the idea before it even gets started.
I.E. If there is a barrier put in your way.... find a way around the barrier.
 
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I just pushed this thread's discussion back out to our two school districts. God bless the great state of Texas...they know how to get stuff done!
 
The program isn't dead for us yet.

I'm working on a couple things with the district that will (hopefully) make them comfortable with the risk.

I called Nationair. They are willing to do a $1,000,000 liability policy with the district as an additional insured for only $300 a year.

One of the local flight schools is also looking at if/how his mega liability policy would be able to cover the district.

I hate all of this, but I do understand the district has to be careful with the liability. I'm hopeful that we can still make this work for next school year. A lot of people have put a lot of work into trying to pull this together, and it would be a shame if the lawyers stop this from happening.

-Dan
 
I do believe that Sovereign Immunity applies to school districts in Texas as well as cities.

I'm not an attorney, but I don't know how this would fall outside of this protection.

Generally speaking, sovereign immunity protects governmental entities from lawsuits for money damages. Texas Natural Res. Conservation Comm?n v. IT-Davy, 74 S.W.3d 849, 853 (Tex. 2002). Political subdivisions of the state, including departments, agencies, cities, and districts, are entitled to such governmental immunity unless it has been waived. See Wichita Falls State Hosp. v. Taylor, 106 S.W.3d 692, 694 n. 3 (Tex. 2003). Sovereign immunity encompasses immunity from suit, which bars a suit unless the governmental entity has consented, and immunity from liability, which protects the entity from judgments even if it has consented to the suit. Texas Dep?t of Transp. v. Jones, 8 S.W.3d 636, 638 (Tex. 1999). By entering into a contract, a governmental entity necessarily waives immunity from liability, voluntarily binding itself like any other party to the terms of an agreement, but it does not waive immunity from suit. Catalina Development, Inc. v. County of El Paso , 121 S.W.3d 704, 705 (Tex. 2003).


Shannon
 
Your program can be just as successful outside of a classroom setting as within. In our case, we are FAR more successful outside the school than within. We are able to provide far more training, expertise and experiences that simply would not have been possible in the classroom.

After initially attempting to startup in a school, we quickly found the issues of school politics and relying on other organizations for funding. We ended up creating TeenFlight Puyallup, a 501(c)(3) entity. We sought out our own sponsorships and control our own budget. We do NOT limit ourselves to just one lucky high school. We currently serve 13 different high schools in 9 different school districts and we continue to add schools. Any high school level student (9th-12th grade) can enroll in our program as long as they make the personal time commitment to the program.

We have our own facility that is large enough and well equipped for aircraft construction. We have 2 nightly build sessions per week totaling 5 hours/wk. We have 10 highly skilled mentors who teach the students and provide the necessary supervision. it would be extremely difficult to have this kind of expertise and supervision for so many students during the day and within a classroom setting.

Our students can also receive high school level credits. Our students also log over 24+ hrs of community service from the community events we participate in. We also provide job shadowing, career mentorship and help them in obtaining scholarships.

We are also considered STEM based. We provide BOTH hands-on and classroom setting training. We also provide FREE flight training to our returning students who return to help lead/mentor our new students. Most of our students are in our program 2+ years, or until they graduate.

Using others fuzzy math on students reached: 13 high schools x 1,000+ students per school = 13,000+ students not including the 1,000s we reached through all the conferences and shows we participate in. ;-)
 
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Thanks for posting Kevin, and adding additional details regarding running a teen aircraft build program outside of traditional school settings.

I still intend to get up north and visit you guys during one of your work sessions.

Scott
 
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