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Practice Oshkosh AirVenture arrival

RV6_flyer

Well Known Member
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2017 will be the 18th time I have flown my RV-6 into Oshkosh AirVenture in the last 20-years. I have flown the RV that I built over 3,000 hours. As an EAA Tech Counselor and Flight Advisor, I would like to share with others how I practice for an RV arrival at AirVenture.

Like most RV pilots, I typically fly cruise speed, traffic pattern speed, and slow flight. Slow flight may be 50-KIAS but it typically does not last for much over 5-minutes. Following the AirVenture NOTAM, we will be flying 90-KIAS for about 12-minutes.

The Oshkosh AirVenture arrival NOTAM says:

?All non-ADS-B equipped aircraft set transponder to Standby at or before Ripon.
Obtain Arrival ATIS (125.9) no later than 15 miles from Ripon and note arrival runways in use.
Have NOTAM arrival pages mentioned on ATIS available.
Then monitor Fisk Approach (120.7).
Arrive at Ripon at 90 knots and 1,800?.?

Since RVs can operate comfortably at 90-KIAS, we are expected to fly the approach at that speed. Every year, I tell someone that wants to fly their RV at 135 Knots and 2,300?, that if they cannot fly their RV in line 1/2-mile apart at 90-KIAS, they should not fly to Oshkosh AirVenture.

Having flown to Oshkosh AirVenture and used all the different Runway options, I would like to share a practice routine that any new AirVenture pilot or one that has done it multiple times can practice on their own before reaching RIPON.

I took off from my home airport and climbed several thousand feet above the ground and setup for cruise speed. Next I reduced to my economy cruise speed and practiced turns about a point. Economy cruise where I burn the least fuel and can loiter for hours if necessary. IF by some chance you are inbound to RIPON and ATC issues a hold, one can orbit or create a hold till the field opens. IF the hold is going to be an hour or more, I would head for and land at a near by airport.

I am now 15 to 20 miles from my home airport, I setup for a decent and arrival at a point a little over 1,000? AGL at 90-KIAS. (I was at 2,300 MSL and that puts me between 1,000 and 1,200 AGL depending on where I am on my practice flight route.) If one has a Constant Speed prop, I advise to record the power setting necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. On my RV-6, 2,100 RPM and 16.5? works well for starting point for 90-KIAS. I will advance and retard throttle as necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. I now fly along a major highway similar to what the railroad tracks we follow will be like. I do a few 90-degree left and right turns along the route. This is done as one may need to turn left 90-degrees out of line so as to go back and start over or one could be directed to make a right turn to enter BASE for RWY 36. The goal on the route is to maintain a constant altitude, heading, and airspeed. In actual flight to AirVenture, you will also be following another aircraft, maintain spacing, and looking for other aircraft. As you get near the airport, you should have flown close to 10 Nm straight and about a total distance of 18 Nm at 90 KIAS. When you get to the airport, you want to do a precision short soft field approach touching down at a specific location you chose that was not the numbers.

We have now completed a simulated practice arrival but without the controllers, traffic, and pressure of AirVenture.

My goal with the practice arrival procedure was to control airspeed, heading, and altitude without using a large amount of brainpower. I want the 90-KIAS, heading, and altitude to be a reflex action so that I can follow other aircraft maintaining spacing, look for other aircraft, and do frequency changes if necessary.

It may be necessary to practice parts or all of this multiple times till it is mastered.
 
You are a true professional Gary. No short cuts in preparedness even with your advanced experience.
The only thing I can add is expect it to be hot. You will be slow, and maybe for a long time. If you have Oil temp issues, resolve them. If you end up in the red while holding, get out and rejoin later. I run cool but saw the highest temps I have ever seen. Dont forget your instrument scan but keep your head on a swivel.
Gary's practice routine may expose problems you are unaware of. An Osh arrival is very different from any. normal flying I have ever done.
 
Good stuff Gary. I would only add fly some close-in right patterns to touchdown.
 
Great minds (or just those that have done this enough times) think alike Condor - I wrote a very similar practice session up in my blog on KP today. The bottom line is that it is MORE than just mainting 90 knots - its doing it at a specific altitude, over a specific line - and keeping eyes outside.

You can make it even more real if you put your wife in another plane and practice seeing what half-mile spacing is like, and how to maintain it!

I guess you can use a friend instead of your wife.....;)
 
And I'd like to add: Do this practice close to the weight and balance you're expecting at the arrival.
 
Good info Gary. I would like to add that at 90kts cruise if you put in 10deg of flaps it will keep your nose down, lowering your AOA and allowing you to see better over the nose making it easier to spot the traffic in front of you. I realize that at 90kts you are slightly over most RV's 86kt flap speed but it works perfectly.
 
My pet peeve is not having to go 90knots, it is with the champs and cubs of the world that can go 90 knots but choose to be careful and fly at sixty knots! My rocket is ok at 90 but sixty means pulling out and going around. Aircraft that are too slow are something to watch out for.
 
Lower speed practice

I did my practice flight this last weekend too. I might add to practice at slower speeds. I flew without flaps at 90, 80 and 70kts, making 180 degree turns at each speed then did with 10 degrees of flaps at each of these speeds and again making 180 degree turns. I prefer the 10 degree flap setting for more stability and getting the nose down. This will prepare you for the very real possibility of getting behind a cub or other slow AC. I am comfortable reducing speed and not S-turning in such a situation, which is not allowed by the NOTAM and still be at 40% over stall speed.
 
Last year was my first fly in trip to Kosh. I got on Google Earth and got familiar with railroad track and Ripon, Fisk, and landmarks along all the possible runway approaches. I watched a lot of youtube videos of different approaches to the different runways. It sure helped me a lot. I have prepared this year the same way. I would also suggest practice slow flight at a safe altitude and slowing it down to even 70kts and watch and see how your oil temp is going to react so it isn't a big distraction when you get there.
 
2017 will be the 18th time I have flown my RV-6 into Oshkosh AirVenture in the last 20-years. I have flown the RV that I built over 3,000 hours. As an EAA Tech Counselor and Flight Advisor, I would like to share with others how I practice for an RV arrival at AirVenture.

Like most RV pilots, I typically fly cruise speed, traffic pattern speed, and slow flight. Slow flight may be 50-KIAS but it typically does not last for much over 5-minutes. Following the AirVenture NOTAM, we will be flying 90-KIAS for about 12-minutes.

The Oshkosh AirVenture arrival NOTAM says:

?All non-ADS-B equipped aircraft set transponder to Standby at or before Ripon.
Obtain Arrival ATIS (125.9) no later than 15 miles from Ripon and note arrival runways in use.
Have NOTAM arrival pages mentioned on ATIS available.
Then monitor Fisk Approach (120.7).
Arrive at Ripon at 90 knots and 1,800?.?

Since RVs can operate comfortably at 90-KIAS, we are expected to fly the approach at that speed. Every year, I tell someone that wants to fly their RV at 135 Knots and 2,300?, that if they cannot fly their RV in line 1/2-mile apart at 90-KIAS, they should not fly to Oshkosh AirVenture.

Having flown to Oshkosh AirVenture and used all the different Runway options, I would like to share a practice routine that any new AirVenture pilot or one that has done it multiple times can practice on their own before reaching RIPON.

I took off from my home airport and climbed several thousand feet above the ground and setup for cruise speed. Next I reduced to my economy cruise speed and practiced turns about a point. Economy cruise where I burn the least fuel and can loiter for hours if necessary. IF by some chance you are inbound to RIPON and ATC issues a hold, one can orbit or create a hold till the field opens. IF the hold is going to be an hour or more, I would head for and land at a near by airport.

I am now 15 to 20 miles from my home airport, I setup for a decent and arrival at a point a little over 1,000? AGL at 90-KIAS. (I was at 2,300 MSL and that puts me between 1,000 and 1,200 AGL depending on where I am on my practice flight route.) If one has a Constant Speed prop, I advise to record the power setting necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. On my RV-6, 2,100 RPM and 16.5? works well for starting point for 90-KIAS. I will advance and retard throttle as necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. I now fly along a major highway similar to what the railroad tracks we follow will be like. I do a few 90-degree left and right turns along the route. This is done as one may need to turn left 90-degrees out of line so as to go back and start over or one could be directed to make a right turn to enter BASE for RWY 36. The goal on the route is to maintain a constant altitude, heading, and airspeed. In actual flight to AirVenture, you will also be following another aircraft, maintain spacing, and looking for other aircraft. As you get near the airport, you should have flown close to 10 Nm straight and about a total distance of 18 Nm at 90 KIAS. When you get to the airport, you want to do a precision short soft field approach touching down at a specific location you chose that was not the numbers.

We have now completed a simulated practice arrival but without the controllers, traffic, and pressure of AirVenture.

My goal with the practice arrival procedure was to control airspeed, heading, and altitude without using a large amount of brainpower. I want the 90-KIAS, heading, and altitude to be a reflex action so that I can follow other aircraft maintaining spacing, look for other aircraft, and do frequency changes if necessary.

It may be necessary to practice parts or all of this multiple times till it is mastered.

An old thread just in time for OSH AirVenture 2018.

On my RV, I know to start with a 2,100 RPM and 16.5" MAP for my RIPON FISK KOSH arrival. MP will be adjust as necessary to as high as 18.5" to maintain airspeed and altitude. My airplane has not seen more than 350 CHT on my practice flights. OT never went over 200. Being a tailwheel aircraft, I hand fly the airplane with more back pressure than some people may like. (I leave elevator trim at setting that is hands-off at cruise speed.) I like to do wheel landings where I can release back pressure to keep the wheels on the runway and require very little or no forward stick pressure.

Now living at a different airport, I still practice for my 19th trip to Oshkosh AirVenture. Depart runway 09 with a left 270 (more like 240-250) departure to cruise altitude and speed. Then decent to 1,800 (1,100 AGL) and 90 KIAS along a highway. Looks something like this.

Screen_Shot_2018-07-09_at_8.22.08_AM.png


This year, my HAM Radio 2-Meter APRS tracker is operational and one can look at my actual track. Above image is a snapshot of one website but the AirPRS.com website will soon be retired but in the mean time, can be used to look at actual data of one of my OSH arrival practice flights. I have done this flight several times and this link will take you to the flight I did this morning. Yes there was another aircraft that I went around for on right base same time I was on left base so there is a circle around the airport.

There are other comments in this thread that others point out things that the new to flying in to AirVenture should be aware of.
 
Ditto on following slow airplanes

in 2017 I followed a Zenith 701 (it cruises at 80 kts) that pulled it back to 65kts. I could see planes backing up behind me on the traffic display. One guy passed me and the Zenith by going over the top. Scared the h*ll out of my wife

With the advent of more of these slower airplanes maybe a revision of the Oshkosh VFR approach is needed.
 
With the advent of more of these slower airplanes maybe a revision of the Oshkosh VFR approach is needed.

I think the NOTAM advises for the slow flying crowd to show up at 7am, also I believe that it allows passing of slower aircraft if it is safe.
 
slow arrivals

I did find the sentence about slow aircraft arriving between 7 and 7:30AM. I understand the reasoning that generally early means light traffic. What I am trying to understand is how an 80kt airplane can get there early.

I did read where it says explicitly not to pass other aircraft unless advised by ATC. Is there something else I missed?
 
There?s more to it than just slow flight. Some years ago I wrote an article for Kitplanes on other skills you should be good at. If Paul can?t find it, maybe he?ll let me repost it myself.
 
Another good thing to practice is changing your landing point. i.e. you're cleared to land on the numbers then told to keep it flying down the runway to another point. This happened to me on short final last year.
 
My co-pilot and I practiced for OSH last Thursday - neither of us have ever flown in. Even though we will be arriving with a mass arrival Sunday morning we trained as though were were just joining the crowd over Ripon. We also practiced spot landing, delayed landings, go-arounds, and did multiple abbreviated patterns at 500' as well as 500' departures. We are fortunate in that we have a handy set of train tracks nearby so we even got some decent visual fidelity.

Why am I writing this? Not to pile on, but rather to thank those who have gone before who recommended doing this training for the OSH arrival, and to say how much of a confidence-booster it is. At the end of the flight both my co-pilot and I felt ready to handle the airplane going into OSH - that's a very valuable level of confidence to have in both the airplane and the flight crew. Well worth the two hours of gas burned.
 
I think the NOTAM advises for the slow flying crowd to show up at 7am, also I believe that it allows passing of slower aircraft if it is safe.

You know, EVERYONE that is flying to Oshkosh should have a copy of this by now, so there is no needs to guess or spread information based on memory. Here is what the NOTAM says on Page 4 about dealing with a slower aircraft in front of you:

?Do not ?S-Turn? to follow an aircraft; instead, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and follow another aircraft of similar speed.?

Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk?s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no ?well someone told me that.....? when it comes to the arrival!

Oh - did my practice yesterday in the airplane I am flying to the show. 1,000? AGL (which is the 1800 MSL at Oshkosh), follow a road, 90 knots (+/- 2 in our bumpy hot air), and 1/2 mile behind Louise (who was flying the airplane she?s bringing to the show).

Paul
 
Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk’s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no “well someone told me that.....” when it comes to the arrival!


Paul

Amen Paul!
 
Page 4 of the NOTAM copied and pasted:

"Proceed single file, directly over the
railroad tracks from Ripon northeast to Fisk
(10 miles). Remain at least ? mile in-trail
behind any aircraft you are following. Do
not overtake another aircraft unless
authorized by ATC."

I had this situation two years ago and was told by ATC to overtake the slow traffic ahead.
 
Slow Aircraft

This will be the 19th time flying my RV into AirVenture.

The NOTAM does not need revised for slow aircraft.

In the past 18-years, I have only been behind a slow aircraft once. IF you get behind a slow aircraft at your home airport, one typically will go around and resequence. The NOTAM tells us how to go around if you get behind a slow aircraft.

No big deal. Consider it free practice.

Follow the NOTAM as written and we all will have a SAFE arrival at AirVenture OSH.

READ the NOTAM. Understand the NOTAM. Follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC.
 
...Follow the NOTAM as written and we all will have a SAFE arrival at AirVenture OSH.

READ the NOTAM. Understand the NOTAM. Follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC.

I've flown in to Airventure five times. Gary, Paul, and others, you are absolutely correct. The procedure for slow aircraft is appropriate.

Read, understand and follow the NOTAM or instructions given by ATC. The procedures provided in the NOTAM work.

July 26 Addendum: Okay, after reading and re-reading the big Fisk Approach Fiasco of 2018 so well documented in the other thread, I must change my stand by saying the procedures in the NOTAM work MOST of the time. It’s obvious something needs to be changed before next year. Whether it’s the NOTAM, or ATC procedures, or mass arrival procedures, or whatever, something must be changed to prevent another furball. The NOTAM procedures may need tweaking, but I still stand by my statement that pilots must read and follow the procedures in the NOTAM. And we must all not be so naive to believe all other pilots will follow the procedure. Most will, but some won’t.
 
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You know, EVERYONE that is flying to Oshkosh should have a copy of this by now, so there is no needs to guess or spread information based on memory. Here is what the NOTAM says on Page 4 about dealing with a slower aircraft in front of you:

“Do not “S-Turn” to follow an aircraft; instead, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and follow another aircraft of similar speed.”

Nothing there says that you can pas another aircraft between Ripon and Fisk’s - if it is in the MNOTAM., please give the page number so that we are al working to the same procedure. Please folks, no “well someone told me that.....” when it comes to the arrival!

Oh - did my practice yesterday in the airplane I am flying to the show. 1,000’ AGL (which is the 1800 MSL at Oshkosh), follow a road, 90 knots (+/- 2 in our bumpy hot air), and 1/2 mile behind Louise (who was flying the airplane she’s bringing to the show).

Paul

As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/vide...nar--tips-for-flying-into-eaa-airventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.
 
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Arrival

If the one arrival is so great just think how much greater it would be to have two!90 knots is 103mph no champ much less a cub will come close to that and that r-22 helio was going real slow on the fisk arrival . This will be my 5th time flying in and im no expert but I think there is room for improvement.

Bob
 
As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/vide...nar--tips-for-flying-into-eaa-airventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.

Phillip,

Thanks for posting that I thought that I might have gone mad and mis-read the NOTAM. I listened to that same webinar.
 
As usual, I watched the EAA webinar on tips for flying in - even though I've been in before, I figure there's no harm in reviewing. I was really surprised this year when Fred Stadler, the webinar host (and to my knowledge, a major contributor to the NOTAM) outright said something about passing slower aircraft on the tracks.

I was kinda blown away. I always recommend the webinar to people planning on flying in, especially for the first time, and I did not expect to hear advice that was so completely counter to the NOTAM, and from an authority figure to boot.

Edit: I honestly began doubting my memory as I typed this, so I went and poked through the webinar again, and sure enough, it's there: http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/vide...nar--tips-for-flying-into-eaa-airventure-2018

About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.

Well dang - I bet you can guess what topic I?ll add to the HAC debrief of the show. EAA shouldn?t be putting out anything that contradicts the NOTAM! And yup - the NOTAM over-rides anything else that you might hear or read.

Thanks for letting me know where it came from - there shouldn?t be contradictory information from sources within the organization!

Paul
 
About 38 minutes in, Fred mentions the problem of being behind a slower aircraft, and says that if there's clear space in front of the aircraft, it would be "prudent" to "very cautiously" pass the aircraft.

To be clear, I mention this not to attempt to contradict the NOTAM, but because I was frankly amazed to hear this advocated.

It seems to me that EAA can advocate whatever they want but I doubt that they would be of much use if the FAA wanted to make an example of someone.
 
Same old pre-Osh discussion, new year.

I do wish instead of

"Slower aircraft should use maximum
cruising speed. ATC recommends arrival
at Fisk 7:00-7:30 AM CDT, if practicable."

Would Amend to:

STRONGLY SUGGESTED slower aircraft that cannot maintain 90kts arrive at Fisk 7:00 -7:30AM CDT. ATC may authorize other aircraft to overtake you at any other times.

I have run into < 75kts airplanes 3/10 times in the arrival and 4/4 times in the Hold* Might say I have a dog in the hunt so I "do" think the NOTAM should be amended.

Comparing going around at your home airport to going back to Ripon after making it to the gravel pit is an Apples to Pumpkin comparison

*
1. Thunderstorm
2. not letting any arrivals due to so many departures
3. same as 2
4. A-26 shut the airport for remainder of the day 2 years ago. We were sent to the hold before the "Sorry airport Closed" was announced
 
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Just took a look at long term weather for a Saturday arrival, and noticed a recipe for trouble.

Right now, forecast winds for Saturday are NW in the AM, moving to NNW midday, then shifting to N in the afternoon, all at 11 to 13 mph.

It means ATC will probably be using 27. Arrivals will need to fly a tight right pattern. Think about the wind effect throughout the 180 from downwind to final.

Too many pilots don't practice right patterns. Now make it a close right pattern, with the wind pushing them wide, past the centerline, in the last 90 degrees of the turn. So they tighten up, pull a little harder, poke in some extra rudder, etc. And it's OSH; they're heavy.

A few years ago I watched an A36 pull into an accelerated stall right there, at maybe 150~200 feet. Bless his heart, he did all the right things...shoved the nose hard, got the wing more or less hooked up again, rolled level, pulled hard, and hit like a ton of bricks, 45 degrees to the runway, roughly on, alongside, or crossing Runway 23. We all heard the prop get curled on the concrete, but it didn't collapse the gear. I would not be surprised if the airplane was totaled after inspection, but his passengers all lived to tell about it.

Don't bite that apple.
 
Too many pilots don't practice right patterns. Now make it a close right pattern, with the wind pushing them wide, past the centerline, in the last 90 degrees of the turn. So they tighten up, pull a little harder, poke in some extra rudder, etc. And it's OSH; they're heavy.
Not only is 27 a tight right approach, but you're supposed to be descending mid-field, so you may be a little lower than you're accustomed to.

I'm planning on a late afternoon Saturday arrival, with what looks like winds from the north. Love that left base approach to 36L...though I'm not counting on it.
 
Just had my biannual flight review today. Focus was on all the things that make flying into Osh unique! Included slow flight, slow turns, tight right hand pattern landings, etc.

Every time I land on 27 I keep chanting to myself ?Nose down, coordinated, nose down, coordinated?.
 
Try it in the sim

Been practicing the arrival on X-Plane and found it really helpful. All the landmarks are there for the most part (Ripon, railrood, Fisk Ave, etc).

It has been a bit of an eye opener because as Dan and others suggest, some of the approaches are pretty tight and non-standard (descending mid-field) when flown per the NOTAM. The sim is just another way to get a feel for it before arriving at Ripon in the actual plane amid all the others.

Fly safe!
Matt
 
I flew in for first time last year. Thought i had practiced everything but it got challenging on downwind. Right downwind for 27,notam says not to descend till midfield. Right before midfield i get told to turn base before the end of the runway. Had to dump in full flaps and dive in a slipping turn to make it. Not what i was expecting for my first time.
 
I flew in for first time last year. Thought i had practiced everything but it got challenging on downwind. Right downwind for 27,notam says not to descend till midfield. Right before midfield i get told to turn base before the end of the runway. Had to dump in full flaps and dive in a slipping turn to make it. Not what i was expecting for my first time.

There's just no way to practice every scenario, is there? I had the guy ahead of me freeze up on the runway one year and they had me go over him to the next dot. It wasn't that big of a deal but it felt pretty hectic at the time.
 
There's just no way to practice every scenario, is there? I had the guy ahead of me freeze up on the runway one year and they had me go over him to the next dot. It wasn't that big of a deal but it felt pretty hectic at the time.

Yeah, my personal philosophy regarding practice has been aimed at ensuring that, when things get interesting, the basic tasks of airmanship are second nature. I want to reserve my valuable brain cycles for the inevitable unexpected stuff.
 
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