This may be old news to many but I wish I had been reminded early in my build.
Tapping nut plates.
http://bcove.me/2pac44l7
Tapping nut plates.
http://bcove.me/2pac44l7
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Your "many" nut plates.
- Thread starter RV12Roger
- Start date
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paul mosher
nutplates
Do what you want, but they will no longer be self locking.
Do what you want, but they will no longer be self locking.
P
paul mosher
I find a lot of things people suggest to do to aircraft hard to believe. Biting my tongue most of the time.
When working airline overhaul I've spent entire shifts removing/installing one fastener.To bad if it was a pain to do it correctly ie. aircraft standards.
thanks for pointing this out
Holy ****, these types of things must be part of the reason for higher than acceptable accident rates for phase 1 flying. I had already watched this video from EAA and only my lazyness kept me from getting a tap tool and doing the nutplates on the VS-rudder.
When I was installing the bolt-hinge connections, the bolts were difficult going in. I assumed I had received louzy platenuts, so I went to the EAA site and looked up platenuts and watched that video. For once, being lazy actually paid off.
Some things such as tapping a plate nut would never be caught by an inspector or mentor unless they were there when you were doing it. In the case of the VS-Rudder, it isn't really possible for the bolt to come lose because of the configuration, but there are others that could. I am sure there are opinions both ways with this, but it drives the point home to research and use your own common sense and not follow anyone or anything blindly.
Holy ****, these types of things must be part of the reason for higher than acceptable accident rates for phase 1 flying. I had already watched this video from EAA and only my lazyness kept me from getting a tap tool and doing the nutplates on the VS-rudder.
When I was installing the bolt-hinge connections, the bolts were difficult going in. I assumed I had received louzy platenuts, so I went to the EAA site and looked up platenuts and watched that video. For once, being lazy actually paid off.
Some things such as tapping a plate nut would never be caught by an inspector or mentor unless they were there when you were doing it. In the case of the VS-Rudder, it isn't really possible for the bolt to come lose because of the configuration, but there are others that could. I am sure there are opinions both ways with this, but it drives the point home to research and use your own common sense and not follow anyone or anything blindly.
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paul mosher
plate nuts
If the engineering didn't want a self locking feature, why didn't they just call out tinnerman nutplates? Yes they are called nutplates. Even access panels can be a load bearing part that you don't want leaving the airplane.
If the engineering didn't want a self locking feature, why didn't they just call out tinnerman nutplates? Yes they are called nutplates. Even access panels can be a load bearing part that you don't want leaving the airplane.
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paul mosher
Not Correct
Just because it has a phillips head doesn't mean it's not a structural fastener.
Just because it has a phillips head doesn't mean it's not a structural fastener.
Frank Smidler
Well Known Member
boelube
I had issues with stripping out the heads of phillips screws going into platenuts for the first time. Some past mentor suggested using a little boelube on the screw threads and this worked great. They went in easier the first time and once the nut plate has been used there has never been a problem getting the screws in again. I have not had any problem with screws backing out of a nut plate that I have used Boelube on.
I had issues with stripping out the heads of phillips screws going into platenuts for the first time. Some past mentor suggested using a little boelube on the screw threads and this worked great. They went in easier the first time and once the nut plate has been used there has never been a problem getting the screws in again. I have not had any problem with screws backing out of a nut plate that I have used Boelube on.
ArlingtonRV
Well Known Member
I use a tiny drop of Marvel Mystery Oil and go slow. I've never broken a screw or stripped a nut plate.
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I'm glad to see this video brought up. I'm just at the point of installing my first nut plates (10-32) and was wondering about tapping. So far just a little boeube has been sufficient to let the bolts go in fairly easy. I'll stay with this technique and will forego the tapping.
Somewhere I did read about running a tap in a couple of turns to just clean the threads up a little. I might try that sometime and see how that affects things.
Jim
Somewhere I did read about running a tap in a couple of turns to just clean the threads up a little. I might try that sometime and see how that affects things.
Jim
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paul mosher
threads
Threads do not need "cleaning". This is aircraft quality hardware. Same stuff Boeing uses. Boelube is OK. Who do you think Boelube comes from?
It's supposed to be hard to get screws in and out. That's the point.
Threads do not need "cleaning". This is aircraft quality hardware. Same stuff Boeing uses. Boelube is OK. Who do you think Boelube comes from?
It's supposed to be hard to get screws in and out. That's the point.
Hornet2008
Well Known Member
He did say inspection plates
My thread from 2009 re: nutplates
History always seems to repeat itself. Here is the thread I started in 2009 on this topic: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42178
While not all agree with me, I stand by my recommendation in the first post in this thread.
There seems to be disagreement on whether using a tap alters the characteristics of the nutplate, but why take a chance? One pre-installation of the screw with Boelube solves the problem.
History always seems to repeat itself. Here is the thread I started in 2009 on this topic: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42178
While not all agree with me, I stand by my recommendation in the first post in this thread.
There seems to be disagreement on whether using a tap alters the characteristics of the nutplate, but why take a chance? One pre-installation of the screw with Boelube solves the problem.
P
paul mosher
Last Time
I'll say it one last time, then I give up. Engineering calls out a self locking feature because they deem it necessary. Running a tap through negates that feature. If you want to re-engineer your airplane, go ahead.
I'll say it one last time, then I give up. Engineering calls out a self locking feature because they deem it necessary. Running a tap through negates that feature. If you want to re-engineer your airplane, go ahead.
YEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GAHco
Well Known Member
2-cents
Generally, I defer to the plans and assume that the engineer/designer specified self-locking hardware for a good reason. I haven't tapped out any nutplates yet. As many have said, use a bit of lube going in the first time and they get easier with use, yet still maintain enough friction that a loose screw won't back out. Once you tap out the threads you can't have that confidence anymore!
Here's what I've been doing:
1-Cleco the nutplate in position.
2-Stack some washers and/or an oversized nut onto a Machine Screw (of the correct size and thread pitch) and screw it into the nutplate firm but not too tight. Object is to hold the nutplate in position and alignment while riveting it.
3-Rivet the nutplate as specified.
4-Remove the screw and "shims".
5-Rinse and Repeat...
It all takes some extra time, but a couple of good things happen.
First, you're running a screw into and out of the nutplate to "tame" it a bit as other have discussed. Second, you're holding it in position and aligned with the screw hole so it doesn't wiggle as you're riveting and make later assembly a real pain. Tha't not when you want to discover that the thing won't work. Not sure which of these benefits the most, but I haven't had any problems when it came time to screw something in place.
I can only imagine tapping out the threads in an application where the fasteners and fastened material are non-structural, need to be removed frequently, I can see them easily in case they're working loose, and nothing bad will happen if they depart the aircraft or rattle around inside! Hard to imagine such an application, but it's possible I suppose.
I remember reading a post long ago about a nutplate that was slightly misaligned or something such that the builder was unable to start a screw in it. Result was a fair bit of disassembly, drill-out, reinstall, and reassembly. The notion of tapping out the threads came up then also. Hopefully the suggested procedure will help someone avoid that without defeating the purpose of the self-locking feature.
Clear Skies!
Generally, I defer to the plans and assume that the engineer/designer specified self-locking hardware for a good reason. I haven't tapped out any nutplates yet. As many have said, use a bit of lube going in the first time and they get easier with use, yet still maintain enough friction that a loose screw won't back out. Once you tap out the threads you can't have that confidence anymore!
Here's what I've been doing:
1-Cleco the nutplate in position.
2-Stack some washers and/or an oversized nut onto a Machine Screw (of the correct size and thread pitch) and screw it into the nutplate firm but not too tight. Object is to hold the nutplate in position and alignment while riveting it.
3-Rivet the nutplate as specified.
4-Remove the screw and "shims".
5-Rinse and Repeat...
It all takes some extra time, but a couple of good things happen.
First, you're running a screw into and out of the nutplate to "tame" it a bit as other have discussed. Second, you're holding it in position and aligned with the screw hole so it doesn't wiggle as you're riveting and make later assembly a real pain. Tha't not when you want to discover that the thing won't work. Not sure which of these benefits the most, but I haven't had any problems when it came time to screw something in place.
I can only imagine tapping out the threads in an application where the fasteners and fastened material are non-structural, need to be removed frequently, I can see them easily in case they're working loose, and nothing bad will happen if they depart the aircraft or rattle around inside! Hard to imagine such an application, but it's possible I suppose.
I remember reading a post long ago about a nutplate that was slightly misaligned or something such that the builder was unable to start a screw in it. Result was a fair bit of disassembly, drill-out, reinstall, and reassembly. The notion of tapping out the threads came up then also. Hopefully the suggested procedure will help someone avoid that without defeating the purpose of the self-locking feature.
Clear Skies!
rzbill
Well Known Member
Y'know,
I definitely agree with not tapping the platenuts.
However, even Van says tap the ones that are hard to get to (such as seat pan next to the fuselage skin).
Well, being the obstinate sort, I did not tap them either but I needed a solution.
I found my solution in the form of this NAS screw from Spruce.
Combination phillips and hex head screw
I have used nearly 100 of them in the cabin and my body really appreciates it in places like the floor rail to center cover connection or any other place that a screwdriver is tough to use. A small ratchet wrench makes it a non issue.
I definitely agree with not tapping the platenuts.
However, even Van says tap the ones that are hard to get to (such as seat pan next to the fuselage skin).
Well, being the obstinate sort, I did not tap them either but I needed a solution.
I found my solution in the form of this NAS screw from Spruce.
Combination phillips and hex head screw
I have used nearly 100 of them in the cabin and my body really appreciates it in places like the floor rail to center cover connection or any other place that a screwdriver is tough to use. A small ratchet wrench makes it a non issue.
ccsmith51
Well Known Member
I have occasional problems installing the 8-32 Phillips screws on my floor panels. Most of the problems are caused by some structural member requiring the screwdriver to be offset a bit.
Today I ordered 75x 8-32 SS Torx pan-head screws. I'm hoping that between the Torx head and a flexible extension in my driver I can get the screws in with no stripping issues.
The screws were shipped today Priority Mail so I hope to get them in time to try them this weekend. I'll report how they work.
Today I ordered 75x 8-32 SS Torx pan-head screws. I'm hoping that between the Torx head and a flexible extension in my driver I can get the screws in with no stripping issues.
The screws were shipped today Priority Mail so I hope to get them in time to try them this weekend. I'll report how they work.
