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Doors and Sean Strasburg's kit

Wayne Gillispie

Well Known Member
Still working on doors. Yes, adding the windows and latch assy. does change the door fit. I'm sure the McMaster Carr seal will too. The doors seemed pretty stiff until adding more weight, then there is really alot of flexing at the door hinge attachments. Sean makes a good kit, definitely worth the money. I just wish I had one set of instructions to go by instead of going back and forth. The only thing I noticed so far that does not seem right is cutting the latch pins 1 1/4" past the "closed/extended position mark". This does not allow enough of the untapered pin to extend into jambs properly. I think I will leave 1 1/2" on the second door today. Then it is on to cutting/building up the cabin cover flange for the seal. How much compression do I really need on that door seal?? I was thinking maybe about 3/16" or half the bulb diameter to keep from putting so much tension on the door. I think I have about 1/16" clearance between flange and door at the top so that will really need some grinding and building up on the bottom side. Any advice is much appreciated!
 
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Pin Extension and seals

Hey Wayne,

Pin extension is totally up to the builder. I recommend 1-1/4+. The way Vans' plans have it you get just over an inch. The reason I suggest 1-3/4 on the 180 kit is to take advantage of the cam and to allow it to pull the door in before the pins come out of the door. Anything over an inch is better than the original design.
When I initially built my doors I had my seal squeezed way too much and finally relieved it by making my door reveal 1/4 instead of 3/16. This is still really tight and the door shuts with minimal effort.
McMaster seals come in both 3/16 and 1/4 edges so if you are too tight with a 1/4 inch lip you can do what I did and take off a 1/16 and make it 3/16 edge. This makes the reveal bigger, which in my case 1/4. Hope that made sense and I hope this helps.

Anyone should call if you have any questions. 801-580-3737
 
Wayne,
What effect did adding the windows have on the door fit? I am at the same stage, just installed Sean's kit this evening and cut the total length to 1.25. It sure looks like that length should be sufficient. I have not drilled the holes in the frame yet, I will get to that tomorrow. I have not installed the window, I was going to wait to install it along with all the other windows, when I permanently attach the cabin cover after the electrical is complete.
Bill
 
door fit after...

...Adding hinges to Left side with .064" spacer on front hinge/.040" on rear hinge Right side no spacers= altered fits by approx 1/16". The hinges have about 3/32" play fore-aft so if both hinges are centered when drilled that allows you to move it a little one way or the other. Of course mine were not centered.

...Adding window= did not check fit.

...Adding window and Van's/Strasburg's latch assembly= both now off by less than 1/16". Possibly caused by window/door interface not matching perfectly and the extra weight added. There is alot of flex at the hinges. One could always add a layer of glass on top to stiffen that up but I would have preferred to do that before bonding shells together, so probably won't mess with it now.

Working on holes for pins/door struts today. Before starting, more sanding to get doors fitting flush AGAIN. Then I am sure that the struts will probably change the fit as it takes approx 110 lbs to start compression of the that strut. Leaving the doors open on the struts will twist them over time. Leaving them closed will keep tension on the rear, so I can imagine that they will never fit perfect. I have already accepted that and will not sweat it. May just put a temporary support under front while building to keep it from getting a twist set into it.

Overall the doors will do their intended job, but I think they could have used a little more carbon fiber throughout, added carbon fiber across hinge areas, changed to two smaller struts vs one large one, and installed hinges on corner post on cabin cover. Of course corner post would have to be built much stronger like Cirrus, blocking some of our view of the horizon. By the time I have added a safety latch kit and safety light kit I doubt reinforcing cabin cover post would have weighed much more.

For those that are not installing fwd fuse top skin, cabin cover/brace and aft fuse top skin per plans before doors, wondering if that will also change door fit once installed? Especially if you add 500+ lbs of engine, prop, fwf kit without any top structure to the airframe.

The main thing for me is that they stay closed in flight. So back to work.
 
Wayne,
I centered my door hinges, and the door seems to fit perfect at this point without any shims. It seems like Vans gave up on the design when they produced the doors. They really should have been hinged at the front for a lot of good reasons. I only have my right door together, and I am going to reinforce the hinges today when I glue the left door together. I am also looking at a way to attach 2 struts further down on the cabin frame to support the door in wind when it is open.

I agree on mounting the engine without the cabin cover attached, I don't think it's smart to do unless the weight is supported right under the firewall. I can see how it would distort re-attaching the front support
Bill
 
Right door drilled for pins then reamed to 7/16"

Drill bits work but they will give you a triangular shaped hole that may get loose sooner. I just happen to have the right size reamer, but would have used drill bits stepping up 1/16" at a time if I didn't have reamer. Also before drilling clamp on each side of proposed hole so that you won't pull fiberglass/aluminum into the gap as much. If your cabin top is going to come off it doesn't matter much. I did not clamp first hole thinking that screws on either side were enough- nope. Did better on second one.

If your door is a little forward too far at the bottom, try using layers of 1" x 2" masking tape at the curvature of the opposite end of door/cabin mating surface. It will actually pull the door back in place then you know where to fill later. Much quicker to test fit this way. Of course it can throw it out of whack somewhere else.

Boy these doors really are fun aren't they? Now I know what all you guys were talking about. Come on engine mount and landing gear...hopefully a little shorter section.
 
A little bit of feedback on this thread for others.

I'm in the middle of installing Sean's kit on my doors. So far it's been fairly straight forward. The biggest frustration so far has been the fiberglass blocks that support the inner and outer door halves where the cam is located.

When the door halves are initially glued together, there is a bunch of epoxy/cab-o-sil mix that squeezes out into the interior cavity. I removed as much as I could with a file, but there is only so much you can access. This epoxy creates some interference with positioning the blocks low enough in the door so they don't interfere with the door pins. I ended up putting a radius on the blocks so they cleared the cured epoxy and then tried to snug them into the lower edge of the door with a flox/epoxy mixture. It was a mixed bag of results at best.

On my next door I'm going to skip the blocks completely. Instead I will mix a sticky batch of flox/epoxy in a cup. Then I'll scoop it up with my finger (nitrile glove of course) and shove it into the door cavity along both sides cam opening. I'll let the mixture cure in lieu of the blocks for the reinforcement. It's easy to control, fills all of the openings completely, and is easy to press out of the way so the door pins have plenty of room to operate.

I'm hoping the blocks in my current door are not too high. We'll see in the the next few weeks.
 
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I just finished prepping my left door for assembly. I pre-installed Sean's kit by drilling the hole and epoxying the two blocks to the inside surface. I am not going to cut the slot nor the access hole for the rack mechanism, I am going to go ahead and attach it and then assemble the doors for good. The first door I installed the kit on I had the same issue as you were with the flox getting in the way of the blocks. I will post some photos tonight after the epoxy cures and prior to assembly. I also pre-drilled the Vans latch assembly holes in the skins and am going to use the #12 holes to cleco the attachment together for more strength when I assemble to the door halves.
 
Holes drilled/delrin blocks installed on cabin cover

Mike- thanks for the heads up a few weeks back and today...I marked them once installed correctly and only removed one set at a time before final install to apply self etch primer to hinges. Also sanded cabin cover pockets with 80 grit then applied high build primer for some protection from water. I will fill around hinges with proseal once finished with this section and fiberglassing everything. I want to be able to remove hinges if I need to replace a worn AN bolt down the road.

Phil- Yep, I ran into the same problem on one 7/16" pin hitting a blob of epoxy/fiber/cabosil. A bear to sand down back in there. I used a rat tail file and a pair of needle nose pliers. If the blocks come in a slightly smaller size that would probably be better or just do as you said and no worries. The blocks definitely stiffened that area back up. I was a little worried once cut because there was alot of flex. Once the gearbox is back in it is really stiff now.

One thing to mention to any "new, very patient door builders" besides having plenty of nitrile gloves and respirator is to not over do it on the 3D fiberglass/resin application to the elbow pockets if you are going with Sean's kit. If you get too much resin (like one of mine) it will run down into area where the delrin gearbox goes. Even with the chamfer on that corner mine still hit. Another bear to get to. Dremel with 1/2" sander on the extension cable did the trick.

Also another tip: grind away a flat surface on bottom side of cabin cover door hinge pockets just beneath some of the washer/nuts otherwise they will not stay torqued when tightened on that angle.
 
Good to have done one first then the other Bill.

I have been doing a little on one door, then a little on the other to catch up. More than one way to skin an RV. There both finally on and the friction is low enough on everything to open/close with medium hand pressure. It will either loosen as I work with it or I will use some rolled up 180 grit to bore the holes out some more.

Now on to the 110 lb strut then the McMaster seal or should I do the seal then the strut??? How did the rest of you do it. It is going to get dusty in here again and more fiberglass strips to build up as needed for approx 5/16" between door inner shell and cabin cover flange sticking up. That should compress the 3/8" bulb about 1/2 way down.
 
Now on to the 110 lb strut then the McMaster seal or should I do the seal then the strut??? How did the rest of you do it. It is going to get dusty in here again and more fiberglass strips to build up as needed for approx 5/16" between door inner shell and cabin cover flange sticking up. That should compress the 3/8" bulb about 1/2 way down.


Take a look at Ivan Kristensen's Phanfare site. I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure google will find it. He has quite a few photos on the subject.

bob
 
I just finished completely installing Sean's kit PRIOR to bonding the door halves. It came out great, and took a lot less time. You just have to be careful with getting wild on the epoxy. I epoxied the stiffeners in place on the inside door prior to bonding the doors. I used masking tape over the rack holes and tied a string to each piece. After the door was on the fuse I pulled the string and removed the tape. Now I don't have a door to repair!
 
I just finished completely installing Sean's kit PRIOR to bonding the door halves. It came out great, and took a lot less time. You just have to be careful with getting wild on the epoxy. I epoxied the stiffeners in place on the inside door prior to bonding the doors. I used masking tape over the rack holes and tied a string to each piece. After the door was on the fuse I pulled the string and removed the tape. Now I don't have a door to repair!

Bill,

I was looking at your photos on Kitlog. Without the holes in the interior door, how are you going to get the pins back in those rack holes? Just curious......

bob
 
Bob,
Believe it or not, once you get the middle rack attached to the rear piece of tubing with it's pin, you can get the rack installed throught the rear hole. You stand the door on end, hold it from the end, and it drops right in the rack assy. I still need to cut the .5" access hole to attach the front rack to the middle rack with it's quick release pin that is provided in the kit.
Bill
 
Bob,
Believe it or not, once you get the middle rack attached to the rear piece of tubing with it's pin, you can get the rack installed throught the rear hole. You stand the door on end, hold it from the end, and it drops right in the rack assy. I still need to cut the .5" access hole to attach the front rack to the middle rack with it's quick release pin that is provided in the kit.
Bill

Those holes were the ones I was looking for......

bob
 
Reviving old thread cuz I've arrived at this point

Cabin top is on. Doors next. Ordered Sean's latch kit a minute ago. Looks like I will attempt the latch kit install before the doors are sealed up. :eek: ;)

Should I plan on adding any reinforcement to stiffen the doors, or are they generally deemed satisfactory as-is?

My other puzzlement is whether to roll my own overhead panel or give Geoff some well-deserved ROI on his tooling and development work. I want one, but have to hold the line on cost somewhere in this build. It looks daunting-but-doable to make my own plug, pull a mold off it and lay up my own overhead panel. What a learning experience that could turn into... might learn some new blue words :D I have settled on an AeroSport carbon panel, center console and throttle quadrant, and interior finish bits, seats from Abby, etc. But the overhead looks like something I could take a stab at - if my time were worth not much and the experience was considered part of the ride.

I'm wracking my brain for ideas of everyday items I can cobble together with blue foam and modeling clay to make a plug. Could end up with something that looks like Dr. Seuss-inspired impressionist recycled junk art. But it will be one of a kind :cool:
 
Several others have rolled their own. Look at Justin Twilbeck's build log. He's a recent example. It doesn't look insurmountable.

For me, I went with Geoff's overhead. I'm a slow builder to begin with and trying to do that on my own with rudimentary fiberglass skills while trying to make it look professional.... I might not have finished the overhead for months! Heck! I'm still working on the doors and cabin top after 3+ months!
 
I think the only way I would roll my own overhead would be if the cabinet top were able to be placed upside down for fitting a mold or forming a layup. Otherwise Geoff's overhead is a nice piece of work and was a nice fit to my cabin top with minimal extra work.
 
I think the only way I would roll my own overhead would be if the cabinet top were able to be placed upside down for fitting a mold or forming a layup. Otherwise Geoff's overhead is a nice piece of work and was a nice fit to my cabin top with minimal extra work.

Concur. I didn't roll my own per se as I have one of the original Accuracy Avionics overhead consoles but it was a royal pain to install. For as much work I out into getting it to fit and finally glassed in, I probably could have rolled my own with not much more effort--probably less. :rolleyes:
 
Cabin top is on. Doors next.

My other puzzlement is whether to roll my own overhead panel or give Geoff some well-deserved ROI on his tooling and development work.

Bill,
I haven't hit this point in the build, but be careful attaching the cabin top before the overhead panel is on. My understanding is that you would learn many new colorful words if trying to install inside the airplane. Most logs I've seen have the top upside down on a bench to install the overhead console.
 
Bill,
I haven't hit this point in the build, but be careful attaching the cabin top before the overhead panel is on. My understanding is that you would learn many new colorful words if trying to install inside the airplane. Most logs I've seen have the top upside down on a bench to install the overhead console.

With cabin installed it's not too bad for a nice piece of ready-made kit like the Aerosport OHC, but rolling your own would be sporty and not for the faint of heart.
 
Thanks, all

I'm not about to install the cabin top until all work that can possibly be done on the bench beforehand has been completed. No way would I try to mock up and create a moldless overhead console working in the plane over my head. That's insane :eek:

Now back to my other question - Plane Around latch kit is best done before the door halves are bonded together, correct?
 
On the Plane-around latch kit. Negative - You'll do it after the doors are assembled... at least I think most of us did. Sean's instructions are for an assembled door.

Once you get into it, it's not too difficult. Just read carefully and give Sean a call or email with any questions. He's super-responsive. I've made a few errors on the set up but they were my own forehead slappers after I re-read the directions. Fortunately, nothing catastrophic!
 
I just finished installing a 'Roll your Own' overhead. You can check out the process I used in my Kitlog (link below). I put a lot of stuff in that I wanted to configure, like lights, electrical switches, heater controls, , GPS antennas and overhead vents.

I like what I have better than those on the market, but added probably 100 hours to the build. If anyone wants the plug or mold, I have both gathering dust in the shop and would gladly give them away.

I am doing the doors right now as well. I added the center cam and plan on staying with the Van's seals with a McMaster edge to finish off the door jam. I also have courtesy lights that light the wing when the door is opened.
Again, photos and info in my Kitlog below.
 
Leo, can you give us a detailed shot of your overhead switches? What all did you put up there? Just curious, as I plan to modify the Aerosport cover for an overhead panel and free up some traditional panel space. I really like your setup!
 
Now back to my other question - Plane Around latch kit is best done before the door halves are bonded together, correct?

Most of us install as a retrofit. Not a big deal. You could install at the same time as the plans call for the hardware to be installed. Just don't cut the gear racks per the plans.

I wouldn't put them in before the doors are bonded. Besides being potentially messy if the flox migrated, you really want the doors firmly bonded.

bob
 
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