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  #131  
Old 04-13-2017, 08:52 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veetail88 View Post
With 350 hours on my 8, I really have no idea why anyone came up with those rudder pedal extensions in the first place. Maybe really small feet?
Big feet, size 14 in my case. And it's not just shoe size; it has a lot to do with leg length, thus knee height, thus the angle at the ankle, plus seat cushion height, and seatback thickness. This may be one of those things where "Do what works" is the best advice.

What works? Like Danny said, the brakes need to be right there, just a poke with the toes, without shifting of leg or foot position. At the same time, getting brake when you didn't want it also bends airplanes. That's the problem for the long-legged. As the legs get longer, the toes go more and more forward given the same angle at the ankle:



BTW, I don't have extensions below the brake pivot. I use a short length of flattened aluminum tube pop-riveted to the pedal forward of the pivot to correct the foot angle. The "A" and "B" notes point to where the cylinder's fork may bind on the weldment.

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  #132  
Old 04-13-2017, 09:27 AM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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FWIW I have rocket steering device and like it. The airplane is easy to taxi and getting tail wheel locked is readily felt.

I subconsciously am on brakes, I hear that chirp, chirp, often. It may have been factor in keeping the thing on runway yesterday.

And, Stan, ex Subby guy, I did not feel all that comfortable at 100 hours either. But it is coming together as I close in on 200, went over 190 yesterday.

The deal with getting hit by cross wind just as airplane is transitioning from tail up, declining rudder authority and no TW steering, to tail down is an envelope we have to watch for. A steady or nearly steady state wind is not too difficult to manage but yesterday the wind sock just off of end of 8L at Spirit showed wind straight down runway. It was not so a 1000' down the runway. Its that unexpected gust that really gets your attention.

Some here may be familiar with the RV-8 that went off into ditch at Spruce Creek 5 or 6 years ago. The guy flying it was friend Jim Corley from TWA and thats what happened to him, just as he was crossing an open taxi area and as tail was coming down, was hit by gust and off the airplane went into a drainage ditch. It was a serious wreck with fuel leak, he said sure glad there was no fire, had trouble getting canopy open. (Jim passed away not long ago, he was careful about health but something got to him anyhow, at least was not an airplane)

All just part of the learning curve mastering the beast.
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  #133  
Old 04-13-2017, 10:17 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veetail88 View Post
With 350 hours on my 8, I really have no idea why anyone came up with those rudder pedal extensions in the first place. Maybe really small feet?
You have to go way back into history - people were concerned about accidentally being on the brakes when they didn't want to be. The way the original pedals were designed, it was really easy for some people to apply brake when they intended only to apply rudder.

I had the extensions on mine from the start, and never had a problem. In any airplane, I slide my feet up and down as required to get the control I want. I removed the extensions when Louise started flying the Valkyrie because she didn't like them. I find the airplane just as easy to fly and land without them.

The truth of the matter is that I have flown with toe brakes and heel brakes, rudder pedals and rudder bars, all different shapes and sizes. I adapt to whatever I am flying because I was taught that way - flew lots of different airplanes before I got my Private ticket. I don't do anything by rote in an airplane, and I think about where I am putting pressure, and what it will do.

It pays to sit in the airplane on the ground and try different things with your feet - you'll be surprised how much your muscles will learn and retain. Actually LOOK at what your feet are doing (when you are sitting motionless), and then remember how it feels. We had a fun time re-adapting the RV-1 to Van's more "seasoned" personal geometry back in 2012, many decades after he had flown it. It was just a geometry and ankle flexibility thing. The left pedal on our RV-6 (kit #4, old style pedals) is a good example of something that feels really odd under foot - but once I looked at it, I understood why it felt that way, and adapt to it.

Try, learn, adapt....

Then go fly something with heel brakes, just to really fry your noodle....
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  #134  
Old 04-13-2017, 10:32 AM
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Default C of G?

Is there a C of G sweet spot for three point landings? What about tail low wheel landings?
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  #135  
Old 04-13-2017, 10:59 AM
stancaruthers stancaruthers is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Paradise tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
FWIW I have rocket steering device and like it. The airplane is easy to taxi and getting tail wheel locked is readily felt.

I subconsciously am on brakes, I hear that chirp, chirp, often. It may have been factor in keeping the thing on runway yesterday.

And, Stan, ex Subby guy, I did not feel all that comfortable at 100 hours either. But it is coming together as I close in on 200, went over 190 yesterday.

The deal with getting hit by cross wind just as airplane is transitioning from tail up, declining rudder authority and no TW steering, to tail down is an envelope we have to watch for. A steady or nearly steady state wind is not too difficult to manage but yesterday the wind sock just off of end of 8L at Spirit showed wind straight down runway. It was not so a 1000' down the runway. Its that unexpected gust that really gets your attention.

Some here may be familiar with the RV-8 that went off into ditch at Spruce Creek 5 or 6 years ago. The guy flying it was friend Jim Corley from TWA and thats what happened to him, just as he was crossing an open taxi area and as tail was coming down, was hit by gust and off the airplane went into a drainage ditch. It was a serious wreck with fuel leak, he said sure glad there was no fire, had trouble getting canopy open. (Jim passed away not long ago, he was careful about health but something got to him anyhow, at least was not an airplane)

All just part of the learning curve mastering the beast.
I went off in our drainage ditch in October, my heal caught on extensions as mentioned. My heal had not caught in 25 hours previously....but that one time was all it took to spend another $30K

The time it takes for the brain to process your toes can't reach the brakes due to heel being stuck under extensions, and then the necessary motor functions needed to reposition in my case exceeded the my processors limitation and short circuited leaving my life in the hands to tightly secured Hookers.

For that much money its hard to believe the short ride I got to the ditch, and it only took about 3 seconds without brakes and it was over.

I'm sure this landing comfortability dilemma I am experiencing is proportional to my experience that is burned into my memory chip each and every time I turn final.
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  #136  
Old 04-13-2017, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
The brakes on the RV-8 are up to the task. Returning from Sun-N-Fun several years ago, I landed at 52F with a gusting direct crosswind of 30K.
After touchdown, the tires sounded like this: Chirp.....Chirp Chirp Chirp Chirp ...Chirp, but the Doll remained on the centerline of a narrow runway.
I'll concur with Danny's x-wind experience...coming into North Las Vegas one afternoon I was confronted with a 30 knot cross. I won't claim to have kept it right on centerline, but I did keep it on the runway! Full rudder and differential braking was the trick.

Mark
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  #137  
Old 04-24-2017, 12:42 PM
stancaruthers stancaruthers is offline
 
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Location: Paradise tx
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Default Starting to click

Flew most all day Sunday, landing...landing...landing until the wind fear subsided. I ended the long day with the RV grin, next hurdle is to get the courage to go out and do a loop
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  #138  
Old 04-25-2017, 12:12 AM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stancaruthers View Post
Flew most all day Sunday, landing...landing...landing until the wind fear subsided. I ended the long day with the RV grin, next hurdle is to get the courage to go out and do a loop
Good show Stan.

Logged 200.1 total in the 8 as of yesterday and am still learning to land the beast but not all tensed up.

The wind has been very squirrelly lately so wheel landings have been necessary. But I do get a very tail low landing now and then and it is better for sure if wind permits it.

A high wing experimental tail dragger got wrecked landing here yesterday due to wind about an hour after I quit. He was on news at 5 pm sitting sideways on runway with one main gear collapsed.
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Last edited by David-aviator : 04-25-2017 at 01:03 AM.
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  #139  
Old 04-26-2017, 08:29 AM
stancaruthers stancaruthers is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Good show Stan.

Logged 200.1 total in the 8 as of yesterday and am still learning to land the beast but not all tensed up.

The wind has been very squirrelly lately so wheel landings have been necessary. But I do get a very tail low landing now and then and it is better for sure if wind permits it.

A high wing experimental tail dragger got wrecked landing here yesterday due to wind about an hour after I quit. He was on news at 5 pm sitting sideways on runway with one main gear collapsed.
Where I tense up is those big gust, example yesterday was 150@14G22
The first landing attempt was scrubbed due to a big gust, on the next attempt, instead of pulling power off and letting it blow my skirt up...I left power in and drove it to the runway on the left wheel.
Wasn't a thing of beauty, but I stuck it on the left wheel and did the dance without bending anything....WAHOOO.
It's ironic that Danny King told me when I have 100 hrs under my belt that I would look back and ask what the fuss was about.....I'm starting to believe.
3 weeks ago I would not have attempted yesterdays adventure.
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  #140  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:09 AM
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David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Rather bad judgement going flying yesterday, but after 10 days of stormy weather couldn't resist the sunshine dispite the wind.

By the time of return it was 70 degrees 15G25, what a rock and roll on final!!

Was in flare right wing down searching for wheel touch when gust slammed airplane on to runway with significant bounce, added a little power and started over had plenty of runway, this time got it on right wheel stayed on runway finally tail down and steering back there.

Wow!! Now that was fun!!

No. Really dumb going out just for local patrol, turbulence was awful up to 4500'. But did see a lot of water along Missouri River, river is flooded.
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