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  #1  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:08 PM
mike newall's Avatar
mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Default RV14 Taildragger Motor Options

Just home from Sun n Fun and have been looking at options for our 14.

The 14 (not A) seems to be able to accept the standard rear governor IO-360 angle valve motor. This is according to several engine builders at the show. However, when you ask on the Van's stand, they are vague and non committal.

So - here is the question.

Can a standard angle valve IO-360 with a normal rear governor fit into the 14 without a whole load of grief ?

I have read the thread about the Vetterman exhaust, but that was an A model 390 motor, so I am presuming Larry may produce similar for a 14 with a normal motor.

The show pricing looks good, but when you talk to engine over haulers and builders, they can offer a 200hp motor considerably cheaper than even show pricing. Then you look at reliability and spares pricing of the 390 and it becomes very tempting.

Let us not fool ourselves - 210hp probably lasts for around 8 seconds on each flight, then you bring the power back and you are within the parameters of a normal motor.
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  #2  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:43 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Mike, Van's built their 14TD with an IO-360 angle valve. If it was the rear governor set up, ask them for pictures.

If not, I would not be afraid of the engine you are thinking of. You might have to use a different baffle set but that is no big deal.

When I built my -9, Van's "supported" the O-290 I used. It required a custom bracket to hold the throttle and mixture cable at the carb, modified baffles, and some other changes. When I replaced that engine with an O-360 using a Sam James short cowl, I had to design and build a custom air box.

None of that was difficult, it took some thought and maybe some extra time but nothing you are not capable of doing.
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  #3  
Old 04-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Thanks Bill,

I wonder if Van's are concerned about c of g if you go for a lighter engine/prop combination ?

We will be using the MT 3 blade again - 3rd one, I do like them, so with either a 382 or 400, it may need a look at w & b before we order.

I do believe that the Van's taildragger has a forward governor - perhaps Scott would chime in with his individual and always welcome input

To be fair - a brand new IO-390 would be a wonderful thing, but if significant savings can be made, they can go into other areas, let's face it most of our airplanes aren't underpowered !

Oh - had a long chat with Brad as usual, the new ignition guys were directly opposite. He was very diplomatic about them
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  #4  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:35 PM
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pazmanyflyer pazmanyflyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post
The 14 (not A) seems to be able to accept the standard rear governor IO-360 angle valve motor. This is according to several engine builders at the show. However, when you ask on the Van's stand, they are vague and non committal.

So - here is the question.

Can a standard angle valve IO-360 with a normal rear governor fit into the 14 without a whole load of grief?
From Van’s FB about engines for the -14 or 14A

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...21827541221519

“The RV-14/14A was designed around (follow closely now) the Lycoming IO-390-A3B6…”

“…we wanted to test a 200 hp version of the RV-14, we installed an IO-360-A1D6 in our RV-14 taildragger prototype – simply because we already had one.”

“One of the most important red flags is the location of the propeller governor. The IO-360-A1D6, like the IO-390, has the governor mounted on the front left side of the crankcase. Many, probably the majority, of IO-360s have governors mounted on the rear accessory case, where it physically interferes with the steel engine mount/nose gear of the RV-14A and causes many ducting/wiring/routing problems for the RV-14.

"The 200 hp IO-360-A1B6 engine we sell for the RV-7/8 is a rear governor engine, and unsuitable for the RV-14/14A."
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Last edited by pazmanyflyer : 04-07-2017 at 09:37 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-08-2017, 06:17 AM
Polar Polar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post

Can a standard angle valve IO-360 with a normal rear governor fit into the 14 without a whole load of grief ?
I spoke recently to a fellow who installed a Titan 370 in his 14A. It sounds like what he saved in engine cost he paid for in labor and headache getting it all to fit & work properly. But he did, eventually, get it to work.

Each new Vans model gets simpler and faster to build, but less and less 'Experimental', in my opinion. I'm of the opinion that if you want a 360 in your 14, or a less expensive clone, or a Subaru, a diesel, a rotary engine; it can be done. Not easily, obviously, and not without risk. But don't let people tell you that you CAN'T.
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  #6  
Old 04-08-2017, 10:57 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pazmanyflyer View Post
From Van’s FB about engines for the -14 or 14A

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...21827541221519

“The RV-14/14A was designed around (follow closely now) the Lycoming IO-390-A3B6…”

“…we wanted to test a 200 hp version of the RV-14, we installed an IO-360-A1D6 in our RV-14 taildragger prototype – simply because we already had one.”

“One of the most important red flags is the location of the propeller governor. The IO-360-A1D6, like the IO-390, has the governor mounted on the front left side of the crankcase. Many, probably the majority, of IO-360s have governors mounted on the rear accessory case, where it physically interferes with the steel engine mount/nose gear of the RV-14A and causes many ducting/wiring/routing problems for the RV-14.

"The 200 hp IO-360-A1B6 engine we sell for the RV-7/8 is a rear governor engine, and unsuitable for the RV-14/14A."
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post
Thanks Bill,

I wonder if Van's are concerned about c of g if you go for a lighter engine/prop combination ?

We will be using the MT 3 blade again - 3rd one, I do like them, so with either a 382 or 400, it may need a look at w & b before we order.

I do believe that the Van's taildragger has a forward governor - perhaps Scott would chime in with his individual and always welcome input
C.G. would definitely be a concern with a light weight prop.
There is not any easy adjustments that can be made to compensate (battery is already on the firewall, etc.) and just adding ballast weight to compensate for a lighter (and more expensive) prop. is counter to good design engineering without some other large benefit (which from our testing there is none).

The info that Carlos linked too is what people should use as a reference for choosing an engine. There are interference's with both models if a rear gov engine is used.
Trying to get a personal inside opinion from one of us at a busy air show is likely to never produce a good outcome.
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:50 AM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Thanks Scott, appreciate your input as always - just back in England from the show.

Reading some of the replies made me think it may be c of g related. We will certainly be going with the MT prop so we are around 15-20lbs light on the nose, but I can see if we further reduce the firewall forward weight, there may be concerns. There are lots of benefits I see in the MT from smoothness, really great acceleration for short strips and it can be procured in an economical manner compared to Hartzell here in the UK. It also adds kerb appeal which is so important ;-)

The 390 certainly looks a good motor, just would have been nicer to have options to save a dollar or two.

Anyhow, we are a little way away from that now, but you have to think forward - just starting on the panel design this afternoon fresh with info from Dynon and Garmin.
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2017, 11:50 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post

The 390 certainly looks a good motor, just would have been nicer to have options to save a dollar or two.
Maybe you have missed it in all of your reading...... The 390 is not the only engine choice.
I agree the choices are more limited than with some of the other RV models but you are not limited to just that one engine.
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2017, 02:00 PM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Find a front governor angle valve motor......

Rocking horse poop !

I agree, Superior are doing the XP-400 with a front governor, but in the aftermarket, I think Lycoming made a few motors for Mooney and that is about it.

Van's are progressing, they are providing the best of the best in the home build market. The plans, production and support after the RV8 has moved forward by leaps and bounds.

We are moving from here is a kit and you have alternatives to here is what we would like you to build, which is the future. They provide the support and parts to make the build seamless.

We saw that in the E-LSA 12, then the 10, now the 14.

No issues, no problems.

Resistance is futile, we will be assimilated, we are Borg

Scott, please - I am British, so we have a different humo(u)r to you

I think we will see how things mature in the next year, we don't need to make motor decisions too soon, however, we are making panel decisions now !

I want Dynon, others want Garmin

Thanks again for the input - aim to visit you soon, we have San Fran flights this year which puts me in decent reach. I owe Barb and Anne a nice lunch for all their help.
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2017, 04:54 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Default LYCOMING IO-360-A1D6 200 HP

Here you go Mike. Buy it and be happy (and save your typing fingers)!

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=148233
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Last edited by RV8JD : 04-11-2017 at 04:56 PM.
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