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  #1  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:33 PM
JDA_BTR JDA_BTR is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 399
Default Alternators

Researching alternators. Interested in having an emergency backup bus with backup battery, and an additional backup alternator on the engine. Already reviewed the Nuckolls drawings.

The firewall forward kit comes with the 60A plane power alternator. Easy enough. But.... all the rest after that is ours to figure out. So....

Which B&C alternator is a direct bolt-on replacement to the Plane Power one?
If I tell Vans to remove the PP alternator from the firewall-fwd kit what else do I tell them to remove? What else to get from B&C instead?
Which style of alternator mounting does the IO-390 have (boss or case-bolt-on)?
Which B&C vacuum pad alternator is best for a backup? (with SB1B controller)
Will a vacuum pad alternator interfere with anything else under cowl?

Where do most people mount the SB1B controller, or the regulator for the primary alternator for that matter?

My goal is to have an IFR platform that is flyable with an alternator failure, or battery failure for a considerable time.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2017, 09:26 AM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 166
Default

I've done something similar to what you're contemplating. This is my second build and I have followed Nuckols both times. I used Z-14 as a guide for this plane.

I kept the standard PP alternator from Van's. It's belt driven up front and is internally regulated (which is fine since it has the ability to have the field circuit disconnected from the cockpit).

I added a second alternator from B and C along with the regulator. The alternator is mounted on the vacuum pad in the rear above the right mag. I got the BC410-H 20-40 amp which clears the oil filter and also does not interfere with anything on the firewall in Van's RV-14 plans. I expect to get a nominal 30 amps at typical cruise RPM.

I used the LR3C-14 controller instead of the the standby version. If I'm going to have a second bus it might as well be active. Almost all of the Garmin instruments have a second power lead with a built in diode so that they can be connected to two isolated busses without back feeding. I use some bridge rectifiers to get dual power feeds to the 625 the com and the AP servo's. The AP servo's get a dedicated switch to kill power to them if need be.

Here are the bridge rectifiers on way overly massive heat sinks. They could probably just be mounted to the aluminum subpanel directly, but I got these for about a buck a piece at a surplus store and they look very old school.



If you build it with two alternators and two batteries you should look at his Z-14 drawing. This allows both busses to be operating full time and can be cross fed if need be.

I mounted the regulator on the cabin side of the firewall just behind the rudder pedals and low enough to get at from underneath the panel.

The second alternator will have enough power to run everything including pitot heat. Since I have pitot heat only for inadvertent flight into icing, the emergency already exists if I need it and I should be looking to get out of it immediately.

This is the fuse panel I built.



Note the two ATC mountable resettable circuit breakers for the alternator field circuits. Here is the back.



Here is the location of new FF equipment required for my installation. Note, these contactors are for bus cross feed and external power. The wiring is just temporary here.




I built a battery box under the passenger seat with a local contactor.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:16 PM
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jthocker jthocker is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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Default Plane power

Doing a complete Garmin panel upgrade on a friends RV7a. He bought it a couple of years ago. Has B and C alternator Along with the LC3 regulator. Probably some sort of aero electric designed electrical system. It is a well built airplane but he has been plagued with electrical problems for the 2 years he has owned it. Guess what, we're ripping out the old wiring and starting over with a Plane Power alt and a simple single buss system. Something a reasonably mechanically inclined person can understand and fly confidently at NIGHT.

G3X with back up battery.

Again, my 2 cents!
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:27 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 128
Default Power Deuce Schottky Advanced E-Bus Diode

If you want a more efficient, at 14 volts, diode set, the schottky will save space and make much less heat at a lower forward voltage drop.
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:45 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jthocker View Post
Doing a complete Garmin panel upgrade on a friends RV7a. He bought it a couple of years ago. Has B and C alternator Along with the LC3 regulator. Probably some sort of aero electric designed electrical system. It is a well built airplane but he has been plagued with electrical problems for the 2 years he has owned it. Guess what, we're ripping out the old wiring and starting over with a Plane Power alt and a simple single buss system. Something a reasonably mechanically inclined person can understand and fly confidently at NIGHT.

G3X with back up battery.

Again, my 2 cents!
Hmmm. If he, like many of us, had been plagued by, for instance, a strong tendency to roll left, would you replace the airplane with a Cessna, as your go-to fix? I mean, what you would have started with is "probably some Van's design", so.....

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  #6  
Old 03-26-2017, 02:46 AM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGG
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Default mismatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by n982sx View Post
This is the fuse panel I built.



Note the two ATC mountable resettable circuit breakers for the alternator field circuits. Here is the back.


Bob, looks good. Do you have more info on those circuit breakers? They look like they fit in a standard fuse location. BTW, I'm sure you know, but some of the fuses don't match the labeling next to them.
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  #7  
Old 03-26-2017, 05:17 PM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Default

Yes, those fuses were staged for the photo. I didn't have all the sizes I needed so I just tossed some in.

They are a Cooper Bussman product and they are designed to fit in an ATC fuse slot.

Here are links to the data sheets for two different types I found.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...227_ATC_CB.pdf
http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...t-breakers.pdf
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  #8  
Old 03-26-2017, 05:26 PM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moosepileit View Post
If you want a more efficient, at 14 volts, diode set, the schottky will save space and make much less heat at a lower forward voltage drop.
Yep, but the parts were all in my spare parts bin. No ordering, no shipping, no waiting.

They do take up way too much space, but for my purposes, the heat and voltage drop is not worth sweating over, and I like em.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2017, 05:38 PM
n982sx n982sx is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthocker View Post
Has B and C alternator Along with the LC3 regulator. Probably some sort of aero electric designed electrical system. It is a well built airplane but he has been plagued with electrical problems for the 2 years he has owned it.
Not sure that I would rate either the Plane Power or B and C alternators as one being better than the other. My experience with both has been positive.

As far as a well built plane goes - I've met, and in your line of work I bet you have too, many top notch plane builders who couldn't wire a light bulb - and they are usually happy to tell you so!

Sounds to me like all the blame really lies with the original builder rather than Aeroelectric or B and C. It seems he may have crafted an overly complicated electrical system in a manor beyond his skill set.

A G3X and a backup battery work fine when installed and used properly, just like a more robust system. Trade offs.
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Last edited by n982sx : 03-26-2017 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2017, 05:42 AM
RV6-KPTW RV6-KPTW is offline
 
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Location: 30 West of Philly - 1 mile from kptw
Posts: 31
Default 2nd Battery Location?

Bob,

Where did you place the second battery?

Thanks,

Dennis
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