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  #11  
Old 04-16-2017, 06:27 PM
rjcthree's Avatar
rjcthree rjcthree is offline
 
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Default Active transition instructors?

In post #3, Mike Seager is noted as the only instructor active at the moment, does anyone have contrary information? Or is that only for RV-10? I'm at a crossroads....Thanks.
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Last edited by rjcthree : 04-16-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2017, 07:25 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjcthree View Post
In post #3, Mike Seager is noted as the only instructor active at the moment, does anyone have contrary information? Or is that only for RV-10? I'm at a crossroads....Thanks.
Since that was my post I'll answer. To the best of my knowledge Mike is the only cfi offering transition training in the -10, when the cfi provides the airplane. If you can provide the airplane, there are other choices. I believe Tim Olson (MN) is offering transition training in his -14, and is considering doing it in his -10.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:07 PM
Dubuque RV Dubuque RV is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Since that was my post I'll answer. To the best of my knowledge Mike is the only cfi offering transition training in the -10, when the cfi provides the airplane. If you can provide the airplane, there are other choices. I believe Tim Olson (MN) is offering transition training in his -14, and is considering doing it in his -10.
Jesse Saint is not a CFI, but some insurers accept him as a transition trainer, given his hours and experience in the RV-10. Mine did
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:50 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Dubuque RV View Post
Jesse Saint is not a CFI, but some insurers accept him as a transition trainer, given his hours and experience in the RV-10. Mine did
I'm sure Jesse is a fine pilot. But someone using their EAB airplane for compensation must have a waiver from the FAR prohibiting exactly that. And the waiver is limited to transition training given by a cfi. (Note, the cfi and the owner can be different people).
Now if the new to a -10 pilot furnishes the airplane (out of phase 1, e.g., perhaps one he bought already built), that's a different story. Assuming he's not renting the plane to himself.
The problem is the cost of insurance - standard policies don't cover instruction for hire in an airplane provided by the instructor.

Last edited by BobTurner : 04-17-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2017, 10:36 PM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
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Default Bob

What about simply instructions without compensation?
I was the lucky recipient of some free hands on time in the left seat of an RV-10. Maybe share the cost or whatever makes it legal.
The insurance company might not recognize the experience and charge the newbie a bit more until he has accumulated 100 hours or so.
The whole transition training experience should be all about getting the experience not getting the lower insurance premium.
Weighing the cost of a trip to Vernonia and instructions from Mike Seager vs the cost of a short term increase in insurance premiums might help decide the dilemma. I too have taken transition training with Mike Seager and can highly recommend it but a good instructor familiar in an RV-10 and local could be equally beneficial except to the insurance company.
Some food for thought....
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2017, 11:54 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
What about simply instructions without compensation?
I was the lucky recipient of some free hands on time in the left seat of an RV-10. Maybe share the cost or whatever makes it legal.
The insurance company might not recognize the experience and charge the newbie a bit more until he has accumulated 100 hours or so.
The whole transition training experience should be all about getting the experience not getting the lower insurance premium.
Weighing the cost of a trip to Vernonia and instructions from Mike Seager vs the cost of a short term increase in insurance premiums might help decide the dilemma. I too have taken transition training with Mike Seager and can highly recommend it but a good instructor familiar in an RV-10 and local could be equally beneficial except to the insurance company.
Some food for thought....
Instruction with absolutely no compensation is legal with the FAA; but if anything goes wrong and the insurance company finds out what was going on, they will be within their rights to deny coverage.
"Sharing the costs" is one of the most misunderstood rules. It can only be done when the flight is incidental to the purpose (e.g., you and the owner want to go to Vegas to gamble). When the primary purpose is flying sharing the costs is not allowed.
The issue is not a 'short term increase' in insurance rates with no transition training. For many pilots the choice is "no insurance" for a short term, or get the training at whatever it costs.
The insurance companies say they want pilots to have transition training. Then they make getting that training expensive.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:46 AM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I'm sure Jesse is a fine pilot. But someone using their EAB airplane for compensation must have a waiver from the FAR prohibiting exactly that. And the waiver is limited to transition training given by a cfi. (Note, the cfi and the owner can be different people).
Now if the new to a -10 pilot furnishes the airplane (out of phase 1, e.g., perhaps one he bought already built), that's a different story. Assuming he's not renting the plane to himself.
The problem is the cost of insurance - standard policies don't cover instruction for hire in an airplane provided by the instructor.
I have done this many times, and always in the trainee's airplane.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2017, 10:06 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
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Quote:
I have done this many times, and always in the trainee's airplane.
It's hard to see how this helps anyone whose airplane has not flown yet and is getting ready for the first flight and 40 hour phase 1.
Not blaming anyone here just realizing what a catch22 all of this transition training is
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
It's hard to see how this helps anyone whose airplane has not flown yet and is getting ready for the first flight and 40 hour phase 1.
Not blaming anyone here just realizing what a catch22 all of this transition training is
I have also done many first flights. With the 2nd pilot rule, there can be 2 people in the airplane during Phase 1.
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RV Hotel (hangar, room, car) at X35 in north FL

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Dynamic Prop Balancing, Prebuy Inspections, Condition Inspections, Repairs and Mods, Injector Tuning, Airframe, Engine, Panel Upgrades, Ferrying, etc.
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2017, 01:44 PM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
I have also done many first flights. With the 2nd pilot rule, there can be 2 people in the airplane during Phase 1.
I get that you can, but do you really want marry-up transition training and initial Phase 1 flights together as SOP?

To Ernst's point, it would seem that the option of having a CFI give you transition training in your own RV where a LODA wouldn't be required is mainly an option for those that buy an already flying aircraft that's in Phase II vs. one that hasn't flown yet.
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