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  #1  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:40 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cleveland Ga and Ramrod Key Fl
Posts: 371
Default No fiberglassing required-window installation

After doing some research, I decided to be the guinea pig and install all my windows without the need to fiberglass over them. While of course, still apearing nice. So far I have installed the door windows and it worked out very well. It is almost the same method used on the Glasair Sportsman windows installation. When Im ready to install the rear windows, it should work out just like the door windows. For the windscreen, Im ordering an aluminum fairing from ML Skunkworks. Installing the windscreen will be the same process as the other windows, except for the fairing install. I decided on the aluminum fairing because I wanted all the windows to be installed without any glassing. I hope to have the finished product done by the end of February. If anyone is interrested in this process let me know and I will keep you posted on the results. I think this will provide another option for -10 builders.
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2017, 01:49 PM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,670
Default I'm interested..

I suppose the thinking is that the interior cabin pressures will be resisted by the adhesive only, correct? Yes. please send me the results of your method and pics if possible. ppilotmike at gmail dot com.
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Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301, President www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current: as of 01/13/17
RV-10 (41PX Reserved) Fuselage
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
http://www.mykitlog.com/mikrettig
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2017, 02:06 PM
N427EF N427EF is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,502
Default Benefit?

What sort of benefit do you see in not glassing over the window/cabin top structure?
Installing an aluminum fairing in place of a neat finish using fiberglass, seems like a step in the wrong direction.
Curious to hear what your reasons are for this option.
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Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 400 plus hours
Over 2500 Gallons of E10 mogas burned
Don't believe everything you know.
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2017, 02:27 PM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
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Default

Ernst,

I think he's just trying to avoid as much glassing as possible, and potentially have a way to replace windows (if needed) without destroying the paint job..
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Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301, President www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current: as of 01/13/17
RV-10 (41PX Reserved) Fuselage
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
http://www.mykitlog.com/mikrettig
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2017, 04:50 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 669
Default Yes, please!

Not planning on glassing the Windows, either. Please keep us posted. I will also be using the aluminum windshield fairing...
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Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:24 PM
Merlin6 Merlin6 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Waller, Texas
Posts: 5
Default Ditto

Yes I'm considering the same thing, mainly the forward windscreen. The primary reason is window replacement after that south Texas buzzard hits the windscreen. Been there, done that. I think glassing in all the side windows is fine, just not the front. I build with long-term "maintenance" in mind in all aspects of this project, access panels, etc. Don't glass yourself too far into a corner....

Yes, please keep us posted. I'm a ways out yet before I tackle this one. Maybe next fall.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2017, 09:28 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilotmike View Post
Ernst,

I think he's just trying to avoid as much glassing as possible, and potentially have a way to replace windows (if needed) without destroying the paint job..
The only place the stock installation has you using fiberglass is along the bottom of the windscreen. That's what, four or five feet? And you could form that in place and make it removable without a lot of trouble.

It isn't like the standard instructions have you glassing in the perimeter around all 5 transparencies for 20-30' linear feet of fiberglass transitions...
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Atlanta, GA
2001 RV-6 N46KB
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  #8  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:11 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 669
Default Uh Oh...

I always get a chuckle (and some good perspective) from this kind of discussion. Kind of like the primer wars...or mags vs electronic ignition...

There is nothing wrong with building stock with no glass; adding glass around the windows; glassing the windscreen; or using the aluminum fairing on the windscreen. It is all up to the individual builder. Some of the comments, though, are pretty rough...I recall one such comment that insinuated the builder who chose to use the aluminum fairing didn't have the skill to do the fiberglass. That is a pretty arrogant view, given the talent of the crowd here...

From what I have seen, the airplanes that are completed are ALL works of art. Can't wait to join the ranks...my BPE engine should get here this month!
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Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful

Dues Paid 2016,...Thanks DR+
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:01 AM
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N402RH N402RH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 570
Default

My concern would be the rigidity of the doors when you use the soft glue that Glasair uses to hold the windows in.

I also decided that I did not want to use Van's window glue method and figured I could do a lot better. I ended up installing the windows in my RV-10 three separate times with horrible results. The first two times I used the epoxy that Lancair uses and both times that windows came out with very little pressure. On a Lancair the windows are installed from the inside and I suspect they also use a different window material that bounds better to the epoxy.

I ended up purchasing new windows for the third try and used Van's method and it really was not that bad.

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2017, 01:54 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,337
Default

Indeed an interesting discussion... Rich - which adhesive product are you using, the SilPruf that's used on the Sportsman? If so, please be very, very cognizant of the date code on the product. It is a shelf life-limited product. The only known bonding loss in the Sportsman is one builder had the upper edge of his windshield come unglued. He readily admits the SilPruf he was using was within its last few days of stated shelf life. Best to use it within six months of manufacture.

Also, to address Rob's comment, and since I know he has access to a Sportsman in his hangar, I'll suggest trying to flex one of the Sportsman doors. They do flex a little bit. Glastar doors flexed a bit more, hence the use of carbon fiber in the upper half of the Sportsman doors. Nonetheless, the bonding agent is not likely a significant contributor to this flexing.

Silpruf is funny stuff. If you lay on a very thin layer of the stuff, it has zero bond strength. You can wipe it off with your finger once it's dry. If, however, you get some thickness of Silpruf built up between a fiberglass structure and a polycarbonate window, you can't get them to come apart. The plastic will break before the Silpruf bond will break. Yeah, I tried this myself and was amazed. The only way to get the windows out of a Glastar or Sportsman is to poke a piece of 0.020" safety wire through the Silpruf, then use it like a wire knife, one person on the inside, the other person on the outside, pulling the wire along the joint, cutting the Silpruf. This technique results in the window being reusable, too (if a damaged window wasn't the original reason for removal)!

As an aside, Silpruf is used to hold glass windows in skyscrapers. It's good stuff.
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