VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 04-20-2017, 05:22 PM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 2,595
Default Vans Flamemaster

The Vans Flamemaster product has built hundreds if not thousands of leak free tanks. Perfectly good product.
__________________
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/01/2016. Plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (1,800+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-02-2017, 07:10 AM
Kellym Kellym is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Why would the PRC Desoto product be any better than any of the other ones available that meet the Mil Spec?

"...Meets requirements of specifications AMS-S-8802 formerly MIL-S-8802..."

Is it historic or familiarity since the PRC product was the first one generally available for RV tank construction?
Excellent questions. Mooney specifically authorizes other brands, just calling for the mil. spec. Last I looked, PRC brand was roughly 80-100% more money than Chemseal Flamemaster.
__________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA
EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD
RV-10 40866
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-02-2017, 08:30 AM
RVbySDI's Avatar
RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
Fresh, in-date sealant is certainly the best way to go for sealing RV fuel tanks.

However, "pro-seal" remains a very aggressive adhesive for odd jobs for many years if stored in a refrigerator. I have leftover Pro-Seal (may be Flame Master) in the frig at the hangar that is nearly ten years old and I still use it as an adhesive with excellent results. Using the left-over quart kit has been much more convenient for various glue jobs than buying a new batch every time one of these tasks arise. I used it last summer to seal up some oil leaks on an old O-200 and that engine is practically leak free now.
+1 for this. Have done the same thing.
__________________
RVBYSDI
Steve
RV9A
Live Long And Prosper!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-02-2017, 07:15 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Posts: 352
Default

Thank you for the input. I bought some Proseal from spruce. Is 6 ounces enough to install both fuel floats (quick build wings). Also, I have a tube of Pro seal thats about 3 years old, but its been kept in the refrigerator. Would it be safe to use it to install the front NACA cabin vents.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-02-2017, 07:18 PM
gyoung's Avatar
gyoung gyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
Fresh, in-date sealant is certainly the best way to go for sealing RV fuel tanks.

However, "pro-seal" remains a very aggressive adhesive for odd jobs for many years if stored in a refrigerator. I have leftover Pro-Seal (may be Flame Master) in the frig at the hangar that is nearly ten years old and I still use it as an adhesive with excellent results. Using the left-over quart kit has been much more convenient for various glue jobs than buying a new batch every time one of these tasks arise. I used it last summer to seal up some oil leaks on an old O-200 and that engine is practically leak free now.
+1 I just used some 15 yr old to seal a cover plate on the firewall. It's been kept in the fridge all that time. That said I just ordered fresh to finish the tanks on my current build. The leftovers will replace the 15 yr old stuff in the fridge.
__________________
Greg

1950 Navion - flying
RV-6 - 15 yrs and 96.3% done
3.5 L-2 projects on deck
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-02-2017, 11:46 PM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 8,418
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellym View Post
Excellent questions. Mooney specifically authorizes other brands, just calling for the mil. spec. Last I looked, PRC brand was roughly 80-100% more money than Chemseal Flamemaster.
Interestingly the Grumman factory repair kits (for the Tiger/Cheetah) referenced the Mil-spec but supplied the FlameMaster product by part number.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:11 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 6,781
Default

Minor detail....

Proseal is often used as an adhesive. For sure, a lot of the adhesive applications don't actually require much strength. That said, it wouldn't be good to overestimate the holding power of polysulfide sealant, which is actually quite low.

Per standards, minimum tensile strength is only 200 psi. Test samples are typically 250~275. It is allowed to drop as low as 50 psi after 14 days in hot fuel.

For comparison, oil-resistant Permatex Ultra Black (aka Loctite 598) silicone sealant is rated at 260 psi per the TDS. 3M FireBarrier 2000 silicone is rated at 350 psi. West System 105 epoxy is 7,900 psi.

Probably the best reason to use proseal as a low strength adhesive? It's paintable.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:16 AM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Posts: 352
Default

Dan, is it best to epoxy them on.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:22 AM
Walt's Avatar
Walt Walt is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 4,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Why would the PRC Desoto product be any better than any of the other ones available that meet the Mil Spec?

"...Meets requirements of specifications AMS-S-8802 formerly MIL-S-8802..."

Is it historic or familiarity since the PRC product was the first one generally available for RV tank construction?
I think its obvious, but Just because a product "meets the spec" does not necessarily mean they are all created equal. In my past life working on and around the big birds the only thing I ever recall seeing/using was PRC.

And if I'm not mistaking, most of the "soft gooey sealant" issues that have cropped up over the years on builders tanks that were blamed on the blue dye, were determined to be sealed with flamemaster.

And yes, I choose products based on past performance, familiarity and history, ones that I know work. I do not choose products based on the lowest cost, I have found that you generally get what you pay for.
__________________
Walt Aronow, Dallas, TX (52F) RV7A, IO360, C/S, 1500+hrs

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154

Last edited by Walt : 05-03-2017 at 05:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-03-2017, 05:30 AM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGG
Posts: 1,964
Default properties

Dan, great to know. As a comparison, here is what West System shows for some of their products:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/typical...al-properties/

__________________
Mickey Coggins
http://rv8.ch
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:05 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.