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Old 04-20-2017, 07:09 AM
N427EF N427EF is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,510
Default What's more important?

As I mentioned before, I solved the issue by receiving some "instructions" in a friends RV-10.
This did not satisfy the insurance requirement but more importantly improved my confidence in handling the RV-10. I flew phase 1 without liability insurance and everyone can get liability insurance but not hull insurance. (unless I am mistaken)
There are hundreds of RVs out there and getting a few rides from a friend and developing a good feel for the airplane should not be too difficult for anyone who has completed and RV. If you can't fly up to Oregon and book with Mike Seager, getting some stick time in a friends RV would certainly take the excitement level down a couple of notches on your first flight.
Not having hull insurance may be uncomfortable to many but for me it was more important to sharpen my flying skills vs. having hull insurance.
What's more important to you?
Ernst Freitag
RV-8 finished (sold)
RV-10 Flyer 400 plus hours
Over 2500 Gallons of E10 mogas burned
Don't believe everything you know.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:40 AM
Auburntsts's Avatar
Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dumfries, VA
Posts: 2,510

Originally Posted by Bicyclops View Post
Well, obviously the purpose of phase 1 is to prove the newly built aircraft safe to operate while risking as few lives as possible. An observer pilot is not allowed by the AC until the initial flight test program, with all the maneuvers and at least 8 hrs flown by the builder pilot, is complete and documented and has nothing to do with what I propose. If I intended to be an "observer pilot" I'd have no business being along on the first flight anyway, even if I did build it and know the airplane better than anybody.

The purpose of the additional pilot program, as set forth in the opening pages of the AC itself, is to cut down on the risk of an inexperienced pilot crashing his brand new plane early in the test flight period. So, taking along a very experienced and highly qualified pilot, who happens to be a CFI, with a ~20hr tailwheel builder pilot - how is that abuse of the additional pilot program? It is exactly what the program is for. If my insurance didn't mandate a CFI, I might well want to use a qualifying pilot per the additional pilot program for the first flight anyway.
Just to clarify, IAW with AC 90-116, while it's true that an Observer Pilot (OP) cannot accompany a builder pilot (BP) until the AIT has been performed, a qualified Pilot (QP), as defined by the AC, most certainly can. Again I'm absolutely not condoning conducting any Phase 1 ops with transition training, just pointing out what the AC says.
Todd Stovall
RV-10 N728TT - Flying!

Last edited by Auburntsts : 04-20-2017 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:27 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,640

Originally Posted by N427EF View Post
I flew phase 1 without liability insurance and everyone can get liability insurance but not hull insurance. (unless I am mistaken)
You are mistaken. I had no hull insurance for my first year (self-insured) but did not have any desire to self insure the liability. No carrier would provide liability coverage to me without some form of type specific experience (past experience or specified hours with a carrier approved pilot in my plane). They would issue me a policy, but it carried an exception for use by me as PIC until I me the requirements of the policy. My carrier did not require "dual instruction," as Bob mentioned, only x hours of time with a carrier approved pilot. I am sure this is typical and that is how Jesse is allowed to perform this support as a non-CDI. Seems some want dual, some want time and some want a checkout/signoff.

When my CFI, who was also a named pilot on my policy, was PIC my liability coverage was in force. Once I had accumulated the necessary hours, I could act as PIC and my liability coverage was in force. Prior to completing those hours, my policy was not in force if I was PIC.

RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
RV-10 in progress

Last edited by lr172 : 04-20-2017 at 03:32 PM.
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