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  #11  
Old 04-19-2017, 06:24 AM
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Jaypratt Jaypratt is offline
 
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Default What RV ?

What RV need nico press sleeves?
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sprucemoose View Post
The plated ones have part numbers beginning with 2 rather than 1
The P/N for the 3/32" tin plated copper sleeves that I used is 428-3-VG. See: Nicopress Oval Sleeves. I haven't quite figured out the Nicopress naming convention but the "28" in the P/N seems to signify tin plating, the -3 is the size in 32nds, and the VG is (who knows?).

AC 43.13 is no help at all and I believe it to be incorrect in this case. Table 7-6 has a note that (for 3/32" cable), P/N 28-2-G is "Required on stainless cables due to electrolysis caused by different types of metals". But that P/N is zinc plated copper which Nicopress tells us is intended for use on galvanized cables (see link in 1st paragraph). You can also go to MS 51844 itself. Table 1 tells us that the tin plated sleeves are "for use on CRES cable". The P/N they call out for 3/32" cable is MS 51844-83 which cross references to Nicopress P/N 428-3-VG

I went round and round over this when ordering Nicopress sleeves to replace the failed plain copper one that came with my kit. I finally decided to ignore AC 43.13 and go with the manufacturer's and the Mil Spec's recommendation. "It's experimental " Unless the Nicopress sleeve is out in the weather (mine aren't) I personally don't see how dissimilar metal electrolysis would be a concern.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypratt View Post
What RV need nico press sleeves?
Non that I am aware of but the original poster appears to be a Lancair builder and some of us have rigged planes that require fabricated cables.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprucemoose View Post
I just bought some of these from Spruce a few months ago. They are indeed listed under the Nicopress sleeves page along with the plain ones.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...?clickkey=4330

The plated ones have part numbers beginning with 2 rather than 1, with all other digits being the same. Per AC43.13 they are indeed required for use on stainless cable. Guess who found the out after completely rigging the aircraft using cables made with the copper sleeves? Live and learn.
Happens all the time Jeff. I hope what follows doesn't ruin your day. The correct sleeves for stainless cable are tin plated and start with "4".

There are two kinds of sleeve plating, zinc (part numbers start with 28) and tin (part numbers start with 428), in addition to bare copper (starts with 18). It's darn near impossible to tell zinc-plated sleeves from tin-plated sleeves after they've been floating around in a parts pin for a while. So what to do?

Bare copper is legal on carbon steel cable, and tin-plated sleeves are correct for stainless cable....so don't ever order zinc-plated sleeves. Just keep them out of your inventory.

Now remembering which sleeve goes with what cable is simplified. All you need remember is that you want a layer of sacrificial plating between the cable and the copper, just like we want cadmium on bolts.

With carbon steel cable, the plating is already on the cable (zinc or tin, either is fine by spec), so you can use a bare copper sleeve.

With stainless cable, the plating must be on the sleeve, as the cable has none.

I don't think there is any FAA document so misunderstood as AC43. Read page 3. Information in AC43 is to be used only in the absence of manufacturer's information. Put another way, if you do something using data in AC 43, and the manufacturer of whatever you were working with has published information available, you are wrong.

This is what I wrote for Kitplanes...

Information specific to
Nicopress-brand oval sleeves is found in
Chapter 7 and Table 7-6 (Fig. 1). Like
much of AC43.13, the entire Nicopress
section is old—so old it may have come
directly from a CAM document when
AC43 was first created. Although often
cited by mechanics as their reference
source, much of the information is outdated
or incorrect.
For example, the “Tested Strength”
values listed in Table 7-6 are too high
for design and do not reflect the notable
strength difference between carbon steel
cable and stainless steel cable. (Oddly
enough, the correct values, 2000 and
1760 pounds respectively, are found in
Table 7-3 in the same chapter.)
Note the asterisk next to the word
“plated.” It means (per the note at the
bottom of the table) that a plated sleeve is
to be used on corrosion-resistant (stainless)
cable. However, the listed 28-series
Nicopress part numbers are zinc-plated
sleeves. Zinc-plated sleeves on stainless
cable has been an obsolete recommendation
for more than 40 years.


Assuming you are using Nicopress-brand sleeves and tools (marked or not), you want "Nicopress Data Sheet - Oval Products" for product selection, and "Nicopress Instruction 32" for tool use and number of crimps.
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Last edited by DanH : 04-19-2017 at 07:25 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypratt View Post
What RV need nico press sleeves?
Works good!

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  #16  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:51 AM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Happens all the time Jeff. I hope what follows doesn't ruin your day. The correct sleeves for stainless cable are tin plated and start with "4".

There are two kinds of sleeve plating, zinc (part numbers start with 28) and tin (part numbers start with 428), in addition to bare copper (starts with 18). It's darn near impossible to tell zinc-plated sleeves from tin-plated sleeves after they've been floating around in a parts pin for a while. So what to do?

Bare copper is legal on carbon steel cable, and tin-plated sleeves are correct for stainless cable....so don't ever order zinc-plated sleeves. Just keep them out of your inventory.
[snipped]
Well shucks. I just ordered some sleeves for stainless cable from Spruce for another project, and ordered based on this, from the Q&A section on their nicopress sleeves:

"Which nicropress sleeve are used for stainless steel control cable?
The Zinc plated copper sleeves are commonly used with stainless cable because of the corrosion resistance, but plain copper can also be used."

Who can tell Spruce that they're wrong, and speak with authority?
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  #17  
Old 04-19-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
Who can tell Spruce that they're wrong, and speak with authority?
Not me. I have no authority. I did call them about their website and requested that they put the tin-plated sleeves in the same place as the others but they never did. The tin plated ones are over here all by themselves: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...ickkey=3012509
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  #18  
Old 04-19-2017, 10:14 AM
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I'll send the appropriate Nicopress document to Jim Irwin. I'm confident he will get it corrected.
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  #19  
Old 04-19-2017, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Happens all the time Jeff. I hope what follows doesn't ruin your day. The correct sleeves for stainless cable are tin plated and start with "4".
Nah, didn't run my day, but did cause me to do more research. You are of course right about the tin plated vs. zinc plated sleeves. My apologies to Snopercod as well- that's what I get for posting before coffee.

So, I now know that the current correct sleeve for stainless cable is the tin plated. What I am trying to discern is whether the use of zinc plated sleeves is verboten, or just an outdated standard. Unless it's a typo, the 43.13 reference had to come form somewhere. In other words, are my cables acceptable, or must they be remade (again.) It wouldn't be the first time I've remade a part three times. Fortunately I can use each old cable to remake the next shorter cable after lopping off the ends, so material wastage is minimal.

I might be taking Snopercod up on the offer to sell some of his excess 250 tin sleeves.
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  #20  
Old 04-20-2017, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprucemoose View Post
I might be taking Snopercod up on the offer to sell some of his excess 250 tin sleeves.
Since I haven't been able to sell them on eBay or here on VAF, I'd be glad to send you (or anybody) however many you want for the price of shipping. PM me your address and how many you want. (These are the 3/32" size. Offer good while supplies last )
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