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Low budget preheat

the_other_dougreeves

Well Known Member
Doug had a comment on the front page today about his hairdryer preheating system and that it worked, sort of. Turns out a hairdryer works for the 912 series as well, probably down to around 30F.

If you're too lazy / don't want to install a preheater, you can use a hairdryer in the cooling air scoop. I would recommend only the high-flow, low heat setting on the dryer to try and keep air temps from getting too hot and scorching anything; the dryer is probably putting out 400W or so. It won't heat the oil tank much, but it will get the cylinders and battery warmish, and that will help prevent kickback when starting (kickback is very bad for the gearbox). Mine started easily after 30-40 minutes of preheat - enough time to preflight the airplane and enjoy a cup of coffee with my hangar neighbors. This probably works well for those of us who don't often get temps below freezing.

low-budget_preheat.jpg


Be sure to remove the hairdryer before engine start. :)

If you DO want to install a preheater, both Reiff and Tanis make 912-specific systems. The Reiff is a lot cheaper than the Tanis. Reiff is only a pad on the bottom of the crank and a band around the oil tank. Tanis uses heating elements in bolts that you replace on the inlet manifold and a strip heater on the oil tank. The Tanis probably works better in harsh conditions, but I don't want to fly in harsh conditions - this pilot probably isn't hearty enough to go flying in sub-zero temps (Yes, I know I'm going to take flak from the Yankees on this one).

TODR
 
If you don't mind a suggestion... I know there are a lot of ways people preheat their airplanes but I'd suggest that consideration be given to the intended use of the device. In the case of a hair dyer, the designers intended it would be used for maybe a couple of minutes at a time, once per day, and last maybe 5 yrs. That's a design lifespan of perhaps 50 hrs. If you run it continuously for hours at a time as an engine preheater it probably won't hold up well, and when it fails I'd want to be there, especially if it's hanging on the airplane. I'm not saying don't use it... just stick around and keep an eye on it. Don't leave it run unattended all night or anything like that. If that's what you want to do I suggest it would be safer to get a heater that's designed for continuous use, like a space heater or an industrial grade heat gun.

Also, anything you can do to seal and insulate the engine compartment to prevent leakage of the warm air will improve the effectiveness of whatever heater you use. A moving blanket over the nose helps a lot.

As far as what works better in harsh conditions, that's a matter of watts and heating time, not name and price.
 
I'm not saying don't use it... just stick around and keep an eye on it. Don't leave it run unattended all night or anything like that. If that's what you want to do I suggest it would be safer to get a heater that's designed for continuous use, like a space heater or an industrial grade heat gun.
Suggestions are good.

My typical use is (1) stop for a cup of coffee, (2) arrive at hangar and plug in HPS (Hairdryer Preheat System TM :)), (3) drink coffee, preflight, do small chores that you've put off, chat with hangar neighbors, (4) 45 minutes later, start engine. I would not recommend operating this system unattended.

TODR
 
Another suggestion

Put a packing blacket over the entire cowl during heating. It will warm better that way. Cool air will come out the bottom, so nothing else to do. I plan to make a heavy foam ring so that the hair-dryer stays in place nicely. If it is below 50 degrees, the hair-dryer will not get overly warm anyway. Cheap and fast way to warm it some. If you warm it 20 degrees, it will help.

John Bender
 
I use the hair dryer system too... 2 of them.. but both have a clothes dryer type hose connected to the snout... about 3 feet long... I put one on the floor under the cowl and stick the hose up into the cowl by the exaust pipes..and sit the other dryer on a stool in front of the plane and stick the hose into one of the air inlets.. plugging the other... then after awhile, I switch inlets... With a heavy blanket on top of the cowl, takes about 45 minutes to increase the oil temp 35 degrees higher that at start (gauge reading).. I just get there early and do preflight and otherthings while it's heating up... Works for me...
Sheldon
 
The main point of heating the oil....

...is to ensure quick starts and good cam lobe/lifter/cylinder splash lubrication at startup. The hair dryer system does not address this problem...you still have thick/non-splash oil, only easy starting because of the warm cylinders.

Compared to the price of engines and airplanes, the Reiff system is a bargain.

Best,
 
This is my BIG hair dryer. It fits under the cowl and blows warm air where the exhaust pipes are. I leave it on 24/7, keeps the oil 50F reguardless of OATs. I think this milkhouse heater was $20 + $15 for the duct work. Works on any RV.


RV Heater.JPG


Patent Pending ;)
 
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Engine Heater

I use a small space heater modified with two clothes dryer aluminum flex hoses that I push into the RV6A air intake, and also plug in a Reiff 300-watt heater pad that was 'glued' onto the bottom of the oil pan in my o320Lycoming ...after an hour the oil temp is in the mid-50s or more even in zero temps...easy starts, and the heater at Wal Mart is about $25 plus a few more dollars for the dryer ducts...the oil pan heater is more expensive but worth it IMHO - I put both on a timer to turn on about an hour before I expect to arrive at the hangar.

John
 
...is to ensure quick starts and good cam lobe/lifter/cylinder splash lubrication at startup. The hair dryer system does not address this problem...you still have thick/non-splash oil, only easy starting because of the warm cylinders.

Compared to the price of engines and airplanes, the Reiff system is a bargain.

Best,

I agree with Pierre...but only partially.
I think anything you can do that raises the oil temp any amount above what it would have been, helps.
I preheat my O-360 with a hair drier blowing into the air exit of the bottom of the cowl (clamped to on one of the exhaust pipes with a spring clamp).
With a Lycoming this puts the air blowing on the bottom of the oil sump.
I throw a blanket over the cowling and have plugs for the air inlets.

I tend to do it anytime the temp hits about 40 F. or lower (though it is rare for it to get much lower than 30 F.) This might not do much at temps near zero, but it makes a very measurable difference in how fast my oil pressure comes up compared to doing nothing at the same temp.

With a Rotax it probably would be better if the air could be directed onto the oil tank, but I think warming up the engine compartment (which will start to warm up the oil tank) is still much better than doing nothing.
 
This is my BIG hair dryer. It fits under the cowl and blows warm air where the exhaust pipes are. I leave it on 24/7, keeps the oil 50F reguardless of OATs. I think this milkhouse heater was $20 + $15 for the duct work. Works on any RV.


RV Heater.JPG


Patent Pending ;)

Now we are talking. I see one of those in my near future. My logistics officer has been engaged for the parts and assembly process. Thanks for the picture, I like.
 
Taking the Milkhouse Heater One More Step

Added a thermostat. Am very happy with the way the pre-heater turned out. About $150 in parts. The change to the SCAT tubing from the furnace flex-duct was very worthwhile. (Much more flexible). A bit pricey at $20 for 2 feet but it works very well. See my blogpost. All parts were available locally, with the exception of the 6" SCAT tubing which I ordered from Wicks.

Takes about 2 hours to bring EVERYTHING in the cowling up to 75 degF, including the oil in the reservoir. (even at 20 degF ambient).

http://martysrv12.blogspot.com/2009/10/homemade-engine-pre-heater-hope-for.html
 
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On cold days (cold is relative, I consider 35F cold), I use 2 blowdriers and a Reiff Hotstrip. The blowdriers go into the cowl inlets, which are fitted with foam plugs (with holes in 'em for the blowdriers)...

With 20-30 minutes of this, the engine comes right to life when I crank it and the oil temp is usually 70+F so pressure comes right up. The CHT's are usually off the peg too.

And I do tend to hang around, just in case. One thing I do to mitigate the blow drier melt-down possibility is I don't put them on the highest heat or fan setting. I figure I'm running 'em at 1000 or 1200 watts, instead of 1500 or 1750.
 
...is to ensure quick starts and good cam lobe/lifter/cylinder splash lubrication at startup. The hair dryer system does not address this problem...you still have thick/non-splash oil, only easy starting because of the warm cylinders.
My understanding of the Rotax is that the bigger issue is making sure that the cylinders are warmish to get quick starts and eliminate kickback during starting, which is really bad on the gearbox and can cause very early failure. Getting the oil warm is good and important, but less so under mild conditions. More preheat is better, I agree, but I don't think the 912 is like a Formula1 engine where all the fluids need to be close to operating temperature before starting.

The whole point of this was to see if it worked enough to preheat under mild conditions (~35F), and I think the answer is yes. For colder temps, I'd want something more effective.

TODR
 
If you don't mind a suggestion... I know there are a lot of ways people preheat their airplanes but I'd suggest that consideration be given to the intended use of the device. In the case of a hair dyer, the designers intended it would be used for maybe a couple of minutes at a time, once per day, and last maybe 5 yrs. That's a design lifespan of perhaps 50 hrs. If you run it continuously for hours at a time as an engine preheater it probably won't hold up well, and when it fails I'd want to be there, especially if it's hanging on the airplane. I'm not saying don't use it... just stick around and keep an eye on it. Don't leave it run unattended all night or anything like that. If that's what you want to do I suggest it would be safer to get a heater that's designed for continuous use, like a space heater or an industrial grade heat gun.

Also, anything you can do to seal and insulate the engine compartment to prevent leakage of the warm air will improve the effectiveness of whatever heater you use. A moving blanket over the nose helps a lot.

As far as what works better in harsh conditions, that's a matter of watts and heating time, not name and price.

Bob,

I did not know about your product until today. Sure looks like it is the cat's meow for preheat.

It would appear a "standard" system would work just fine on the 0360, or would the 100 watt rings without the sump heater be just as effective?

Not sure what I am reading with regard to heating times and temp rises on the chart. Are the 100 watt ring times with or without a sump heater with regard to oil temp rise?

Thanks. I have a BD coming up and my wife always wants to know what I need. :)
 
Reiff Systems

I've been using a Reiff preheat system on my Arrow for years. Put it on a timer to go on 2 or 3 hours before flight, throw an old bedspread over the cowl, and it starts easily in the coldest of temps.

I'll be ordering a Reiff system for the RV-12 before the first winter. Why play around with Rube Goldberg arrangements on a $25K engine?

BTW, it was a brisk -13F here in the Adirondacks this morning, so this is a subject near and dear to my heart!
 
There's another benefit....

Bob,

I did not know about your product until today. Sure looks like it is the cat's meow for preheat.


Thanks. I have a BD coming up and my wife always wants to know what I need. :)


....and that is that after an overnight heating, the case and the cylinders are warm to the touch since all that aluminum is bolted together and heated by the warm oil. Makes for really easy starting and an instant 100 degree oil temp. Just buy the sump pad heating system unless you live in the north or Canada where it gets around zero, or less:eek:

Best,
 
....and that is that after an overnight heating, the case and the cylinders are warm to the touch since all that aluminum is bolted together and heated by the warm oil. Makes for really easy starting and an instant 100 degree oil temp. Just buy the sump pad heating system unless you live in the north or Canada where it gets around zero, or less:eek:

Best,

Thanks. What you say makes good sense. I called Bob and the temp rise for the sump heater alone was measured with a 6 cylinder and it may be better with the 4 as there is less oil to heat.

I ordered the 200 watt HotStrip System. I'm sure Mr. Lycoming will like it very much as opposed to a 25F OAT cold start which I have been doing lately. The HOTSTRIP can be hooked up to a timer to come on at mid night and by dawn you're ready to blast off with a happy engine.

For $169, it is a very good deal. :)
 
milkhouse heater revisited

I added a timer to my system thinking 24/7 heater operation would be too costly. I set the timer the day before to come on 2-3 hours before the ETD.
I use the same gray colored 1500W heater and 6 inch duct and "cowl adapter" as pictured in a previous post.
 
For those of you who are not in the frigid north but still need some preheat
for a few months out of the year and want an alternative to the hairdryer
technique you might consider this:

Got a Stanley Utility heater at Lowe's (model 675900) for $49. It is angled up
just perfectly so that you can make an adapter shroud out of several layers of aluminum foil that tapers down from the heater outlet to Van's standard
scat tubing (which I had laying around). Taped the scat tubing to the shroud, put the other end up into the engine compartment by the exhaust
pipes. Run continuously for 45 min to 1 hr with cowl plugs and blanket over
the cowl. Just enough time to get some coffee, check weather, preflight, and chat with whomever is around. In 35 deg F outside temps got the oil up to 59 deg. Engine starts first time.

Peter K
9A 102 hrs
 
Automotive Pad Heaters?

I know a guy who connected a pager to a relay that turned on a timer that controlled the pre-heater. From home he called his pager and everything was warm when he arrived at the airport.
Heaters located outside of the cowling are ok for occasional use even though they are not very efficient. They must continuously heat the cold outside air. And heated air inside of the cowling is exhausted. I admire the ingenuity of others who have adapted cheap off-the-shelf heaters. Permanently mounted heaters have the advantages of being more efficient and of always being available, even away from the home airport. It is too bad that heaters made specifically for aircraft engines are so expensive. Has anyone tried pad heaters designed for truck or automotive use? Below are links to examples.
Joe
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000I8YPQ4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0S49THE47T3MS2SZJRXQ

http://www.dieselproducts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200339139_200339139
 
Fire Risk?

There seem to be a lot of good ideas here for warming up a motor for those colder temperatures, but I'd be a little concerned about having any type of heating element within a cowl and unattended.
 
Thanks. What you say makes good sense. I called Bob and the temp rise for the sump heater alone was measured with a 6 cylinder and it may be better with the 4 as there is less oil to heat.

I ordered the 200 watt HotStrip System. I'm sure Mr. Lycoming will like it very much as opposed to a 25F OAT cold start which I have been doing lately. The HOTSTRIP can be hooked up to a timer to come on at mid night and by dawn you're ready to blast off with a happy engine.

For $169, it is a very good deal. :)

My thoughts on why you might want to leave the HotStrip plugged in all the time instead of cycling it:

http://thervjournal.com/cold.html

Engine heat is a very good thing. :)
 
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On cold days (cold is relative, I consider 35F cold), I use 2 blowdriers and a Reiff Hotstrip. The blowdriers go into the cowl inlets, which are fitted with foam plugs (with holes in 'em for the blowdriers)...

With 20-30 minutes of this, the engine comes right to life when I crank it and the oil temp is usually 70+F so pressure comes right up. The CHT's are usually off the peg too.

And I do tend to hang around, just in case. One thing I do to mitigate the blow drier melt-down possibility is I don't put them on the highest heat or fan setting. I figure I'm running 'em at 1000 or 1200 watts, instead of 1500 or 1750.

I'm not sure the lower setting helps much. I think the weak link in the typical household blow dryer is the fan bearings (sleeves). The one failure I saw, the fan started screeching, the bearings apparently seized but the heating element stayed lit, then without the airflow to carry the heat away it quickly overheated and the housing started smoking. Again, I'm not criticizing the products. They work fine for the intended use.
 
Bob,

I did not know about your product until today. Sure looks like it is the cat's meow for preheat.

It would appear a "standard" system would work just fine on the 0360, or would the 100 watt rings without the sump heater be just as effective?

Not sure what I am reading with regard to heating times and temp rises on the chart. Are the 100 watt ring times with or without a sump heater with regard to oil temp rise?

Thanks. I have a BD coming up and my wife always wants to know what I need. :)

The System Specs table in the web site gives all the numbers for all the systems. The Standard system is 50w per cyl and 100w on the oil and will raise your entire engine about 80F above ambient overnight. Per the table the 100w cyl heaters with no sump heater will raise your oil about 80 and the top end about 100F.
 
I added a timer to my system thinking 24/7 heater operation would be too costly. I set the timer the day before to come on 2-3 hours before the ETD.
I use the same gray colored 1500W heater and 6 inch duct and "cowl adapter" as pictured in a previous post.

1500w at 24/7 would cost about $110 per month here (elec rate = about 10 cents per Kwh).
 
There seem to be a lot of good ideas here for warming up a motor for those colder temperatures, but I'd be a little concerned about having any type of heating element within a cowl and unattended.

Heating elements sold since 1992 = 70,000

Fires = 0

Not sure how a fire would even happen. The heating elements themselves don't get hot enough to start anything on fire (150-200F range), and there are no flammable materials used to make them.
 
I admire the ingenuity of others who have adapted cheap off-the-shelf heaters. Permanently mounted heaters have the advantages of being more efficient and of always being available, even away from the home airport. It is too bad that heaters made specifically for aircraft engines are so expensive. ]

Just a few reasons why that is...

1) Economy of scale. Auto/truck heaters = large market. Aircraft heaters = small market. Auto heaters spread the fixed costs over millions of units per year. I spread mine over a small fraction of that. That means a large part of my selling price goes to pay stuff like insurance, advertising, etc.

2) Product liability insurance cost for aircraft parts vs cost for auto parts.

3) Auto/truck heaters = no FAA testing and documentation requirements

4) Made in China vs made in USA

etc etc
 
Bob,

I didn't know you were an RV'er, and I'm glad to see you on the forum. Been using your products for years and they are top notch. The price is easily justafiable when you think about the convenience of just plugging it in vs. fussing with blowers, propane tanks, electric heaters, generators, and all the other stuff I see some of my contemporaries using here in the northern half of the country.

I'll be ordering my Rotax kit when I order the engine. I wonder if it would cause a big fuss with the DAR if the heaters were installed before the inspection? That might be an individual decision. I guess it would behoove one to check with their DAR before installation.

John
 
More watts?

"My" hangar contains 70 aircraft, and has a number of power sockets. I cannot guarantee that if I leave something plugged in it will remain plugged in after I have left!

I'd therefore be interested in a solution that does enough in the hour before flight when I will be around. The temperature here (Scotland) in winter typically ranges between 20F and 50F.

The Reiff website suggests there are three power ranges, though the only reviews I have seen are for the lowest. Any thoughts on using a higher power unit for a shorter period on a 912?

Cheers...Keith
 
I'm not sure the lower setting helps much. I think the weak link in the typical household blow dryer is the fan bearings (sleeves). The one failure I saw, the fan started screeching, the bearings apparently seized but the heating element stayed lit, then without the airflow to carry the heat away it quickly overheated and the housing started smoking. Again, I'm not criticizing the products. They work fine for the intended use.
Most modern hairdryers are equipped with overtemp sensors that will shutdown the heating element. Maybe not all, but some. But you're right, the fans on those probably aren't the most robust. Do not use unattended.

High flow, lower power setting keeps air temps from being as high, reduces scorching any part close to the outlet. Most 912 installations use a FRP cooling shroud that probably doesn't wouldn't take kindly to that.

TODR
 
hairdryers

Okay gang, I just installed a NAPA hot pad on the one side of the sump where it would fit, and a little 50 W one on the battery, the other weak link in my opinion.
haven't tried it yet, but thought I'd relay something I read in the Reiff or Tanis guide.....don't forget the heat loss thru the cowl and prop; both need to be insulated or all those watts go to waste!

I plan to try sticking a hair dryer in the carb air intake. Why not? Depending on the crank position, it should let hot air up thru the sump, adding a little heat to the oil, and then thru one or two of the intake runners. Hmmmm, perhaps I'm hoping for some valve positioning that doesn't exist!?! :)
We really should ask the ladies about hair dryers.......but I've used one in a darkroom to dry film, and ran it almost continuously for years ( it was a black & Decker branded mini-dryer though!)
most that I've seen run for at least 20 minutes at a time, and eventually fail due to hair & spray ingestion, and a little wire element burns out, or a switch fails. THe new ceramic element ones should be better, and at $19.95 each, I'd just run it on max, and put as many BTU's into the engine as possible.
My 250 W sump pad heater seems pretty wimpy by comparison to the heat the blower puts out.....but of course, you gotta get it to the right places!

Another guy I hear of pipes the exhaust from his idling car into the cowl while he goes for coffee.
Hmmm, anyone see a problem with that?
 
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Of all the "creative" ideas I've heard on this thread, the idea of piping exhaust gases into the engine compartment is the abolute worst! Don't even think about it!
 
For those cold weather flyers that cannot leave the heater on 24/7, or do not want to wait around for 2 hours to warm up the engine can use a remote device to turn the heater on. Buy a cheap cell phone and you are good to go. You can just call the device from your regular phone and it will turn the heater on with a preset timer. Call a couple of hours ahead and no waiting!

http://www.apogeekits.com/remote_control_via_cell_phone.htm

I met a guy in Washington state that used a pager set up like this. He had a pager set up to some device that when he paged that number it kicked the Reiff system on before he got to the airport.
 
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Any thoughts about a electric blanket draped over the cowl? I need to go through the closets and see if I can 'regift' myself one of these.
 
Hey Steve

If you want a warm hood, it woud be fine. Would do nearly nothing for the engine and oil tank. Along with an engine heater, it would be OK, but not add much to the real need - engine heat.

John Bender
 
REIFF PREHEAT SYSTEM

Installed 2 days ago.

Happy new year.

STATS with REIFF PREHEAT SYSTEM RV-12

Outside temp = MINUS 3 degrees ( - 3 ) at 8 AM, 1-1-10.
Windchill = Minus 16 ( - 16 ).
Aircraft, at about 10 different places, inside brand new hanger was 22 degrees. ( wings, fuse, etc. )
Packing blanket over engine, but open on bottom, no cowl. ( not perfect ).

Engine heater strip was about 120 - 140 degrees on heater alum surface.
Near engine heater strip on block was 70 - 80 degrees close to it.
Away from heater, say 4 - 6", it was 60 - 65 degrees.

Oil tank just above heat band was about 80 degrees.
Below heat band, near bottom, it was 50 degrees roughly.

Display tells the real story :

74 degree oil temp ( front of engine )
64 degree CHT's
43/44 degrees EGT ( the pipes dissipate heat fast, so not surprised here )

150 watt system ( low power usage ).

Overall, with cowl in place, and a custom cover perhaps, maybe a 5 degree rise in these reading could be attained. ( higher likely if 25 degrees outside )

SATISFIED AT THIS POINT ! ! ! ! ( IT IS COLD OUTSIDE ! ! ! )

Pictures availalbe.

John Bender
 
BigJohn

The heater had been plugged in about 24 hours. I went to the airport this morning to check it after 48 hours on. ( MINUS 17 degrees outside ! ) About the same readings. It is not hot, and that is fine. If the engine is basically 60 - 70 degrees, and the oil is a little warmer, it would start like summer time. At 150 watts, it is not too expensive to do the job. The milk-house type heaters are 1500 - 1700 watts. This will be much cheaper to operate, and seems good so far. I see no real down-side to it so far. Open the oil door, and plug it in. I may make a custom packing blanket type cover that will velcro together on the bottom and fit the nose just right. I'm sure with that, it would be 10 degrees warmer at least. I just have a packing blanket thrown over the nose now, no cowls. Open on the bottom.

John Bender
 
E-Z Heat 912 Engine Preheater

Has anyone out there installed an "E-Z Heat 912 Engine Preheater" (sold at Aircraft Spruce item #07-01860) on your RV12? I just bought one to fight the cold nights here in N.E. Texas. I've been using a small barn stall heater with ducting in the past and it works pretty good. I'm just tired of messing with it and looking for something easier to setup. This looks like it will fit the bill.

My question to those who have installed this E-Z heater is, did you place both heating pads on the oil tank, or place the second pad on the engine block someplace? Remember, pictures are worth a 1000 words.

Thanks, Steve
 
fwiw,
''kat's'' makes stick on heaters for autos .i have them on my jab 3300 .a 150 watt is about $30. a 25 watt [for oil cooler] is about $20.
i use a 150 on the oilpan, a 150 watt on the block, and a 25 watt on the oil cooler. heats in an hour or 2, depending on oat. since i use a cell switch i built for about $50 i turn it on several hours before i fly. been using it fore 3 yrs.
 
Update on mine - -

I also put a packing blanket over the entire nose, and clip it together in the front with plastic quick clips. When I open the canopy and turn on the
Dynon, EVERYTHING is 90 - 94 degrees. The entire compartment is totally warm. Starts like summer time, and is at temp before I can get to the end of the runway. NO WARM-UP TIME !

The Reiff pre-heat is perfect and easy to install also. Totally satisfied at this point.
 
I also put a packing blanket over the entire nose, and clip it together in the front with plastic quick clips. When I open the canopy and turn on the
Dynon, EVERYTHING is 90 - 94 degrees. The entire compartment is totally warm. Starts like summer time, and is at temp before I can get to the end of the runway. NO WARM-UP TIME !

The Reiff pre-heat is perfect and easy to install also. Totally satisfied at this point.

John,

You said prior that "pictures were available."
Where are they? Can you post a couple here on the forum or point me in their direction?
Sounds like it is working pretty good.

:)

Drifty
 
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