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G3X Questions

Xkuzme1

Well Known Member
Thinking about doing some upgrading in the future. Thought I would start with some questions about the Garman G3X.

1) Is the GPS that's built-in able to be certified for approaches? Enroute?

2) Can it only be paired with Garmin radios? Transponder? Becker radios?

3) Can a narco nav 122 data be displayed on it?

4) Can a non garmin servo be made to work with it?

5) Can it supply a trutrak PFD an rs232 feed?

6) Is the GPS Waas? If not, how does that factor in with the ADSB? If at all?

7) how much are the monthly / yearly updates?

8) if not updated, can you still use the outdated data?

9) where/what is the cheapest place to get a new/used G3X?


Thanks guys.

X
 
Thinking about doing some upgrading in the future. Thought I would start with some questions about the Garman G3X.

1) Is the GPS that's built-in able to be certified for approaches? Enroute?

2) Can it only be paired with Garmin radios? Transponder? Becker radios?

3) Can a narco nav 122 data be displayed on it?

4) Can a non garmin servo be made to work with it?

5) Can it supply a trutrak PFD an rs232 feed?

6) Is the GPS Waas? If not, how does that factor in with the ADSB? If at all?

7) how much are the monthly / yearly updates?

8) if not updated, can you still use the outdated data?

9) where/what is the cheapest place to get a new/used G3X?


Thanks guys.

X
Okay, I'll guess. But I don't own one, so don't believe anything I say!
1. No. Built in gps carries no IFR "certification" (TSO)
2. You can make most radios work okay, as long as you don't want to control them thru the EFIS. Older VOR radios may not display CDI data on the EFIS.
3. See #2. I don't know.
4. I don't know but certainly for some servos the answer is no.
5. My guess is yes, but check.
6. Doesn't matter, the internal gps is not approved for ADSB-out use.
7. Check Garmin's web site. There are many different "packages".
8. Yes. But it may not be legal for IFR except "awareness"
9. On this forum for used! For new ask Stein (an advertiser here) for a quote. (he may not be the absolutely cheapest but he is dependable, honest, great service).
 
Hope we can get the Garmin guys to reply because I want to add another question.
1. Other than WASS and radio what do GTN 650 & 750's provide that the G3x touch can not?
 
Suggest you send an email to g3expert at garmin dot com with your questions. Fast and friendly service - and it seems like they never sleep!
 
Hope we can get the Garmin guys to reply because I want to add another question.
1. Other than WASS and radio what do GTN 650 & 750's provide that the G3x touch can not?

A legal ifr navigation source, and a legal position source for ADSB-out boxes that can read Garmin's ADSB+ format.
 
Because the G3X is not certified through the TSO (the FAA's Technical Service Order) it cannot be certified for IFR operation. It supplies you with either an awesome VFR platform or gives great situational awareness for IFR. As the other guys said, you need to add a certified IFR instrument. A basic certified IFR GPS and a current data base and your have an IFR platform. The CDI information can be displayed on the G3X, as with the other manufactures. From what I have researched, you will get minimal features mixing the G3X with other manufacturers (and visa versa). There are firmware and software issues, along with the usual product marking. Garmin, Dynon, GRT are really close in the price points, and each have attractive features. The best thing to do is get some hands on with the different brands and see what you like. The annual IFR database will range from around 300 to around 1000 dollars depending on the sunscription level (regions), how many certified IFR units you have, and it will have VFR updates for the G3X units.
 
Just to clarify the above post: Most equipment (attitude indicator, airspeed indicator, DG, VOR, com,...) can be used for ifr operation in an EAB without any "certification", e.g., TSO. A small number of items must at least "meet the standards" of the applicable TSO. These include transponders, ADSB-out, ELTs, and GPS used for IFR.
 
Minor technical point but I don't think there is any such thing anywhere as a "non-certified" transponder unit, is there? I'm pretty sure aircraft transponders are TSO'd by default, even though their connected equipment may not be (antenna, encoder, GPS, etc).

Also be aware that in some parts of the world, like where I live, the phrase "meets the standards of TSO XXX" is meaningless marketing PR and it's either TSO'd (has the paperwork) or it's not. :)
 
Minor technical point but I don't think there is any such thing anywhere as a "non-certified" transponder unit, is there? I'm pretty sure aircraft transponders are TSO'd by default, even though their connected equipment may not be (antenna, encoder, GPS, etc).

Also be aware that in some parts of the world, like where I live, the phrase "meets the standards of TSO XXX" is meaningless marketing PR and it's either TSO'd (has the paperwork) or it's not. :)

Yep. This is relatively new ground for the FAA, and there seems to be a fair amount of confusion. So far as I know only a few ADSB-out units are being sold as "meets the standards".
And the FAA is allowing non-TSO Garmin G5's and Dynon D-10's on normally certified aircraft whose paperwork nominally calls for TSO'd attitude indicators.
 
Hope we can get the Garmin guys to reply because I want to add another question.
1. Other than WASS and radio what do GTN 650 & 750's provide that the G3x touch can not?

Hello Jim,

We receive this question often, so it probably warrants some explanation. Every G3X and G3X Touch display contains an excellent non-certified WAAS GPS receiver, but that is only the first small step in achieving performance and functional parity with a certified IFR navigator like the GTN 6XX/7XX.

There is a fairly common misconception that if you have a WAAS GPS receiver, then you must have everything needed to fly IFR WAAS GPS approaches.

The two TSOs listed below specify the required performance and functions of a certified WAAS GPS navigation sensor (TSO-C145) and a complete stand-alone IFR navigator capable of being used for all phases of IFR operation including enroute, terminal, and approach (TSO-C146).

TSO-C145, AIRBORNE NAVIGATION SENSORS USING THE GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM (GPS) AUGMENTED BY THE WIDE AREA AUGMENTATION SYSTEM (WAAS)

TSO C146, STAND-ALONE AIRBORNE NAVIGATION EQUIPMENT USING THE GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM (GPS) AUGMENTED BY THE WIDE AREA AUGMENTATION SYSTEM (WAAS)

While the Airman's Information Manual may not be regulation, it is the FAA's guidance on using GPS for IFR operations.

2. IFR Use of GPS
(a) General Requirements. Authorization to conduct any GPS operation under IFR requires:
1) GPS navigation equipment used for IFR operations must be approved in accordance with the requirements specified in Technical Standard Order
(TSO) TSO−C129(), TSO−C196(), TSO−C145(), or TSO−C146().​

It further specifies what is required to use GPS as the sole source of navigation (even enroute) if you are not using a WAAS corrected TSO-C146a navigator like the GTN.

2) Aircraft using un-augmented GPS (TSO-C129() or TSO-C196()) for navigation under IFR must be equipped with an alternate approved and operational means of navigation suitable for navigating the proposed route of flight.​

Many reading this will quickly say "yes, but we fly EAB aircraft, so we don't need TSO'd equipment. We only have to meet the performance requirements of the TSO'd equipment."

While this may be true, meeting the performance requirements for IFR operations to safely fly down to minimums (sometimes 200 ft) in the clouds on an LPV approach is a tall order.

DO-229 specifies the Minimum Operational Performance Standards (MOPS) for TSO-C146 navigators like the GTN 6XX/7XX. It is over 500 pages and contains very strict requirements on just about everything imaginable associated with IFR navigation using a WAAS GPS navigation source.

The performance requirements for integrity monitoring and alerting to make sure a pilot does not continue toward the earth on a precision approach when the integrity of the 3D navigation solution is not assured are particularly stringent.

We take IFR operation very seriously, and feel that the G3X integration with Garmin IFR naviagtors provides the best of both worlds. The affordability of a non-certified EFIS system with the design assurance, performance, and safety of a rule compliant certified IFR navigator.

Thanks,
Steve
 
My RV-9A is all Garmin.

I have a twin screen G3X Touch setup, and I'm using a GTN650 as my COM 1 and IFR GPS.

These units work together really well, and just about seamlessly.

I enter my flight plans directly into the 650 (even for VFR) and it gets pushed to both G3X touch screens.

I fly a decent bit of IMC with this setup, and it is incredible how easy it makes doing things.

If you plan to fly your RV IFR I don't think there is a better/safer setup.

-Dan
 
My RV-9A is all Garmin.

I have a twin screen G3X Touch setup, and I'm using a GTN650 as my COM 1 and IFR GPS.

These units work together really well, and just about seamlessly.

I enter my flight plans directly into the 650 (even for VFR) and it gets pushed to both G3X touch screens.

I fly a decent bit of IMC with this setup, and it is incredible how easy it makes doing things.

If you plan to fly your RV IFR I don't think there is a better/safer setup.

-Dan

This is what I would use if my RV-14A was ready to fly today: assuming this will be true in 18-24 months when I finish it, can you use an ipad to create your flight plan and upload it to the GTN650? Seems like that would be easier.
 
This is what I would use if my RV-14A was ready to fly today: assuming this will be true in 18-24 months when I finish it, can you use an ipad to create your flight plan and upload it to the GTN650? Seems like that would be easier.


You can. You need a FlightStream 210 or 510 to do it via BlueTooth or some way to export it onto an SD card. I file IFR all the time and for me it's easier and way cheaper just to load my GTN 650 manually after I have my clearance. YMMV....
 
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You can. You need a FlightStream 210 or 510 to do it via BlueTooth or some way to export it onto an SD card. I file IFR all the time and for me it's easier and way cheaper just to load my GTN 650 manually after I have my clearance. YMMV....

No you don't.

I don't have a flight stream, I just use Garmin Pilot on my iPad connected to the G3X Touch via Bluetooth, and it will send my flight plans to the 650.

Most of my clearances are direct, so I usually don't mess with it, but when I have a complex clearance it is really nice!

-Dan
 
No you don't.

I don't have a flight stream, I just use Garmin Pilot on my iPad connected to the G3X Touch via Bluetooth, and it will send my flight plans to the 650.

Most of my clearances are direct, so I usually don't mess with it, but when I have a complex clearance it is really nice!

-Dan

Thanks for the correction - I have the standard G3X not the Touch so I'm behind the curve ;). But unless you fly in the NE corridor where you can get some convoluted airway routings, I still think for IFR there's not much utility in the function. For VFR with lots of waypoints it makes more sense, but I don't fly VFR flight plans beyond my local area so no advantage for me.
 
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No you don't.

I don't have a flight stream, I just use Garmin Pilot on my iPad connected to the G3X Touch via Bluetooth, and it will send my flight plans to the 650.

Most of my clearances are direct, so I usually don't mess with it, but when I have a complex clearance it is really nice!

-Dan

Perfect - thanks
 
Yep, glad Bob pointed that out. The TSO requirement is for just the navigation unit only, i.e. GTN 650, etc.
 
A basic certified IFR GPS and a current data base and your have an IFR platform.

Ahh.. this explains why everybody seems to be putting GTN650s in their panel. I was wondering about that.
 
Ahh.. this explains why everybody seems to be putting GTN650s in their panel. I was wondering about that.

you can also go with a 625 (no VOR/ILS) or a 600 (no radio/VOR/ILS).

I elected to go with the 650 even though it was a decent bit more expensive. I like having the ability to track a VOR or shoot an ILS approach if necessary.

-Dan
 
A few additional points to consider besides just price:
* A consistent user interface across boxes will reduce the probability of error. If you hope to fly IFR and are on a strict budget, maybe you should reconsider. And you will go nuts interfacing items from different vendors, even if it is theoretically possible;
* I worked in user interfaces and avionics a number of years before I retired. Pretty much all systems have problems, and even the best manufacturers don't like to make changes. (Our engineers love it, so what's wrong with you?). There are traditional steps to get up the user interface learning curve: ground training (very hard to find and limited); manuals (too often a check-off item and rarely answer all your questions); flight training (the FAA will let you get airframe training for hire in an experimental but not avionics training in an experimental); and experience. My friends at Garmin may cringe at this, but I'm just starting to feel comfortable after 100 hours, and there's still more to learn;
* The amount of functionality on glass systems is staggering, and then multiply that by the number of options and settings. I sometimes wonder if my conversion to glass was more work than my original instrument rating. (And I had lot of exposure to airline and bizjet glass).

If you're going to do IFR, do it right or don't do it. And one wise friend in pre-autopilot days said that his RV was great for IFR as long as he didn't have to do any paperwork, meaning clearance or chart. These days it's real easy to get distracted with the programming and not fly the plane.

Ed
 
A few additional points to consider besides just price:
* r. And you will go nuts interfacing items from different vendors, even if it is theoretically possible;
*

Ed

I respectfully disagree. My panel has GRT, Garmin, Dynon, Trio, Trig, Skyradar, and home brew audio panel. It all works, and works together, just fine.
Or maybe I'm already nuts! -:)
 
I respectfully disagree. My panel has GRT, Garmin, Dynon, Trio, Trig, Skyradar, and home brew audio panel. It all works, and works together, just fine.
Or maybe I'm already nuts! -:)

For me, the different sequences of button pushes, different hard/soft key functions, different graphical user interfaces, etc. across various companies (and even within the same company sometimes) was a annoyance when installed in the same cockpit, or bouncing between cockpits. I had in my plane (among others) GRT and Garmin glass, plus glass in my work aircraft, and flew a couple other GA aircraft with various glass (G/avidyne), and iPad jepps and iPad foreflight. I found each mostly intuitive and easy to use on their own, I read the manuals and learned to use them well, etc., but would sometimes hit the wrong button(s), look for something that wasn't there, or expect a different outcome/interface from certain button pushes because my mind confuses similar but different interfaces. Entering airports/wpts in the G696 or G1000 was different than the using GRT or foreflight. No matter how much I "learned" it, after using a different piece of equipment to do a similar function, then going back, my brain always wanted to confuse the methods of input.

It wasn't anything more than a small annoyance, shifting my brain from one train of logic to another, akin to me bouncing between my Mac and Windows computers, or one FMS manufacturer to another. Once using it a few times, I get it down, mostly. But, I still hit the wrong buttons on my FMS at work (honeywell) due to the similar but different buttons/menus on my previous FMS (collins), and the law of primacy, etc. And I haven't used the old one in a year. I don't mind flying behind any particular glass manufacturer, but having consistency in interfaces is nice, especially within the same cockpit.

Throw in hardware/firmware/software compatibility issues, and that could cause an even bigger headache (at least initially). It sounds like, in your case, that isn't an issue. And I know several others who haven't had issues. But, I like seamless integration and common interfaces, personally. Perhaps if I consistently flew behind only one panel that used multiple (and varying) products, my mind wouldn't play those confusing tricks on me.
 
I respectfully disagree. My panel has GRT, Garmin, Dynon, Trio, Trig, Skyradar, and home brew audio panel. It all works, and works together, just fine.
Or maybe I'm already nuts! -:)

Bob, based on all your wonderful posts in the GRT help threads, I'd guess that you're already nuts! ;)
 
Will try to reply to some of the questions.
The G3X is awesome.
It pairs well with many Garmin radios in panel or remote models.
Use Garmin servos and auto pilot and you will not have people pointing fingers at each other.
Use something like the GTN 650 to get wass/legal IFR
You then have a moving map on GTN, virtual vision on G3X and approach chart on other half of G3X with position superimposed on maps and chart.
You can have both Garmin ADS-B in and out tied into remote transponder etc, etc.
Even the new G5 serves as a back up that can work with autopilot servos when set up correctly.
Yes, I am a Garmin fan and love it.
 
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