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Help with Hangar Design

Omega232Devils

Well Known Member
Meeting with my engineer to finalize the blueprints for my hangar/apartment in 2 days.

Here are the givens:
60x60x14 Wood hangar with 4/12 roof and flat ceiling inside. (Hangar door oriented to the north on the Grass Runway)
30x30 apartment attached to the west side
50x14 Higher Power Hydraulic Door
10x12 RV/Boat access door (Don't own an RV, and no plans to own one)
2 x pedestrian doors at each end
4 x windows, 2 each along east and south side walls

Here are the maybes:
Insulation - (most important) current plan is to spray in closed cell foam.
No A/C planned, but 2 large fans to move the air around.
Heat - Current plan is radiant tubes hung from ceiling.
Electrical - I plan for 220v or 240v for Hangar Door and workshop, otherwise nothing special.


So, what do you recommend?
What did you do that you are glad you did?
What did you do that you do not use?
All recommendations are appreciated.

Many thanks,

Dan
 
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Ideas:
* Plan where everything is going to go before you finalize the hangar details;
* Industrial sink in the hangar, maybe a toilet (so you don't have to go into the apartment);
* Sofa in the hangar, and a fridge, so you can visit with friends in the hangar;
* Tools in a roll around; also hardware, spare parts, oil, etc on rolling steel shelves -- and make sure everything has room around it so they're all easy to move and put back. If they're tightly packed, they won't get moved;
* Make sure you have a plan for moving planes in and out of the hangar without having to move other planes. Getting a plane out of the back row can be a pain;
* I had a large hangar once that I could taxi into. Much easier to turn a plane around inside a level hangar than to pull it up a ramp;
* Lots of work table space because it always attracts clutter and becomes a scarce commodity;
* Maybe a plan for a bunch of folding chairs and tables. We have monthly breakfasts in one man's hangar around here;
* Pedestrian doors over-wide so you can move stuff in and out without having to open a big door.

Hope this helps!

Ed
 
Hangar space

I apologize for hijacking this thread but I thought this would be a good place to post my question. I am considering building a 50 X 60 foot hangar (50' wide). How many airplanes can you get in a hangar of this size? I know it depends on the type of aircraft but assuming they were all single engine aircraft. Thanks for any input.
 
Hanger

Hi Dan. Check in with Larry at Rapidsetbuildings.com
Good guy with a nice product. Easy to design online and program gives
Pricing delivered. Will be heading to NC in a couple of days with my 9. Are you around? Al
 
I apologize for hijacking this thread but I thought this would be a good place to post my question. I am considering building a 50 X 60 foot hangar (50' wide). How many airplanes can you get in a hangar of this size? I know it depends on the type of aircraft but assuming they were all single engine aircraft. Thanks for any input.

Do like the Navy does on aircraft carriers. :)

Make some scale cutouts in paper/cardboard of each of the planes you are considering and make a scale drawing of the hangar with the clear door opening marked.

Shuffle the paper cut-outs as needed allowing for some position tolerance and "walk-around" space.
 
Girts

Meeting with my engineer to finalize the blueprints for my hangar/apartment in 2 days.

Here are the givens:
60x60x14 hangar (Hangar door oriented to the north on the Grass Runway)
30x30 apartment attached to the west side
50x14 Higher Power Hydraulic Door
10x12 RV/Boat access door (Don't own an RV, and no plans to own one)
2 x pedestrian doors at each end
4 x windows, 2 each along east and south side walls

Here are the maybes:
Insulation - (most important) current plan is to spray in closed cell foam.
No A/C planned, but 2 large fans to move the air around.
Heat - Current plan is Propane fueled hung from ceiling.
Electrical - I plan for 220v or 240v for Hangar Door and workshop, otherwise nothing special.


So, what do you recommend?
What did you do that you are glad you did?
What did you do that you do not use?
All recommendations are appreciated.

Many thanks,

Dan

Make sure you specify "flush girts" - this will give you about 6" more room around the main posts.

flush-girt.jpg


The usual default is for bypass girts -

bypass-girt.jpg


Note in the two pictures the girt is attached to the wall so it is the main beam that is displaced inwards with the bypass option.
 
Some thoughts from living with my 48?x48? hangar these last 14 years:
- You cannot over insulate. My hangar as a 3? poured concrete hip wall and 2x6 studs from that. The wall is R-19 and the ceiling is R-40 or so (blown in insulation).
- I installed the hangar ceiling using 4?x15? white steel siding. I did this with a group in the airpark. We we helped each other do the install - we could do a full hangar in a day. The best part was once it was up, no finish, no paint and no maintenance. The white color also provided a good reflector for the 8? fluorescent lights.
- The door (Wilson bi-fold) has 1? rigged foam board on the inside - a few dabs of Liquid Nails keeps it in place. The bottom has the standard rubber roll - if I was to do it over again I?d do the double rubber roll. The sides of the door have industrial grade weather stripping. The outside of the door is dark gray steel panels. Don?t even think about not insulating the door.
- Airconditioning is provided by an old (but large) hand me down window AC unit. While way too small for the job, the insulation allows for 80 degrees in the hangar while 95 outside. I turn the AC on only after I go to the hangar and off when I leave. The concrete mass lets the hangar coast.
- Heat is only 3 plug in space heaters. This is not adequate but on the coldest days here in Virginia with the outside at 20 degrees the hangar will get to about 60 after 8 hours or so. I turn the six ceiling fans on low in reverse to move the hot air down.
- No bathroom, but water on the side of the hangar. The last thing I want is another bathroom to keep clean.
- 50 amp outlet for a welding unit. Never used it but it cost nothing to add it when you are running wires.
- 20 amp 220VAC outlet for the air compressor.
- The hangar is wired to the house alarm system.

What I would do different:
- Heat and AC, at some point I will bite the bullet and install a real HVAC system. I will use a heat pump as I?m not a fan of open flame in the hangar. A lot of my neighbors use Waste Oil heaters but they are grossly overpriced and a pain to keep scrounging for drain oil. If I was to do it over again I?d consider radiant heat in the concrete floor slab, run by a propane boiler located outside the hangar. I?d still install the heat pump for AC and for the efficiency gain over ever increasing propane costs. I have deferred this issue as I find I rarely heat the hangar. 90% of the building process is done in the house basement shop, not the hangar.
- Radio controlled door. Not doing this was my biggest mistake.
- Hardwire internet access. I?m using WiFi repeaters from the house WiFi - it works but I?d rather have the WiFi in the hangar plugged into the hardwire.
- The hangar apron has proven to be too small. I recommend at least 30? in front of the hangar.

Carl
 
I apologize for hijacking this thread but I thought this would be a good place to post my question. I am considering building a 50 X 60 foot hangar (50' wide). How many airplanes can you get in a hangar of this size? I know it depends on the type of aircraft but assuming they were all single engine aircraft. Thanks for any input.

My 48?X48? hangar houses an RV-10 and and RV-8, along with work tables, lawn tractors and such. It will fit three two seat RVs. While they all fit, you have to do a lot of plane moving to get the back one out.

A bigger hangar would be nice - but I?m thrilled that I have what I have.

Carl
 
If you can, add an attached, well insulated single car garage sized workshop with a big door into the main hangar.

Then one of the new, efficient mini-split heat pumps can provide comfort in a smaller place rather than trying to heat/cool the entire hangar.
 
I've seen 4 Swifts & a Stinson 108 in a 50x48 hangar, but it was...interesting to fit them in & out.

I tend to get obsessive about putting 6 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket. 1st thing I thought about, seeing your dimensions, is offsetting the main door, to get more usable space on one side (boat, rarely used vehicle, etc).

2nd was height. 14' is almost enough for a 2nd story in the back. Mezzanine for light bench work, avionics, planning, etc?

Structure probably wouldn't be an issue in a building that size, but if you're considering alternative energy, will the roof handle the load of solar panels? They're already cheap enough to rival conventional electricity, if you provide your own labor. They'll only get cheaper in the future.
 
I have just gone through building a new hangar, played around with a free program called Room Sketcher to get all the layout and dimensions figured out.

https://planner.roomsketcher.com/?ctxt=rs_com&language=en#/?pid=3028842

I ended up with 40' x 56' x 16' high, have room for a plane, motorhome, pilot lounge, half bath, and workshop downstairs, and a second floor that is going to be storage and Laura's stained glass workshop. The second floor would have made a great guest suite or apartment, but we did not want to deal with doing the landlord thing.

I see you intend to put in a Higher Power door----great choice, I just hung my door yesterday, still need to do the hydraulics. So far I am really impressed with the design and how well everything fits together.

https://media.roomsketcher.com/levelimage/?pid=2567313&id=3834247&ts=20170411160038

21766556_1246849678754627_1910862004197331799_n.jpg


21106677_1226069124166016_6981461620326881267_n.jpg
 
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Hangar Help

Hello,

I would suggest increasing the sidewall height from 14' to at least 16'-17', I have a neighbor with 20' and its nice for overhead space. I would also increase the door heights on all door if cost effective. I also added ridge vents, new skylights and insulated drive doors with openers to my existing hangar. You mentioned no interest in a motor home but future sale or an airplane on floats would have a costly update later.

Just my 2 cents

Robert
 
I had a friend that built a 60 x 60, really nice. However, he soon realized that if it had been a 80 x 60, 80 wide, he could have pushed the airplanes tails to the sides and had the center alley available to pull out each airplane without having to move planes around. If you can afford it, it may be worth while down the road. Dan from Reno
 
For heat consider:
1. Radiant In-floor heat. Nothing is nicer than working on a heated surface.

2. Next I would consider radiant tube heaters overhead.
 
Thanks

All great suggestions, keep 'em coming.

I should have put in my original thread (and I will update it) that the hangar will be wood construction with a flat ceiling. Plan now is to dry wall the inside and ceiling.

Hangar location is in North Carolina, north of Charlotte.

Dan
 
Hangar design

Think carefully about your electrical service, what you need now, and what you may want in the future. For your service panel, make sure you have plenty of room to add circuits down the road. If your current needs call for 100A service, consider installing a 150-200A panel

You can never have too many electrical outlets

Warren
RV-7
KMIC, Minneapolis
 
I got a C150 and Smith Miniplane in a 40' wide T-hangar with plenty of room left overfor my workbenches.
I rent a 40'x60' hangar with a 55' folding stack door. It has a C182, C172, Mooney M20F and a Zenith CH150 Acro in it now. The 172 and Zenith can leave and enter the hangar without moving anything else. The other airplanes dont fly right now.
Last summer we added an RV4 to the bunch. Had to rearrange some tool boxes and storage boxes.
I really like the hangar. Dont have to open the whole door to drive a car in, or get one airplane out. I wish it were 80'x60' with a hangar door on each end.
I think all the suggestions heard here make very good sense. I like the white steel ceiling idea. The most difficult part of working in most hangars, in my experience, is seeing: they are dark.
 
Hangars are like checkbooks---they are never big enough. :)
That being said, I have a 50'x60' (60 is the width). 12' ceilings and 54' bifold door, so that leaves a little more than a 10' opening. When my friends come to visit me I have managed to get in 3 RV-10's and an RV-6.
Depending upon where you live, conditioning it is a real plus. Do insulate, including the door. I used an LG cassette air conditioner heat pump that cools and heats the whole hangar. When it's 95 in Atlanta, it is 68 or less in the hangar. Much more comfortable to work. It is flush with the ceiling in the center of the hangar.
I also added a 15x30 foot side attachment to the hangar that houses 2 8' workbenches and all of the floor pedestal-type power tools, like bandsaws, grinders, and drill press. It helps to keep to keep the junk off of the airplanes.
I used LED light tubes in the 8' shop lights, and a light gray colored floor. Reflects the light really nicely without making it too bright. Is easy to clean, and you notice when you might have a leak on the airplane.
WIFI is really needed. You'd be surprised any more at how often you need to look something up and how available it is with an IPAD while you are in the cockpit. :)
A bathroom is a must. However, I attached the hangar to the house and use a bathroom in the house from a spare bedroom/office as the entry to the hangar.

Do put a sink in the hangar as well. Also, You can't put enough electrical outlets, and do consider putting some in the ceiling where you can attach some power cords on reels from the ceiling. It beats tripping over them on the floor. In the side shop area I mentioned I put the lights on a motion sensor, so they come on and go off automatically as usually I am walking inor out of there with my hands full of something.

Hope this helps.

Vic
 
Ceiling height

Vic,
What are your thoughts on your 12' ceilings? Do you wish you would have gone taller? That is probably the biggest thing I waffle on is whether to go 12 or 14' on the ceiling.

Dan
 
Hangars designed, priced and print plans online

The thread was started with a wood hangar. But if you want to compare you can design a pre-engineered steel hangar live online, get a real price, delivered to the zip code, with engineered stamped plans for your state / location. The system already has the Schweiss hangar door specs built in but you can spec another door if you want.

Give it a try, it's free and easy.

Even if you buy from others you would have a price to compare and plans design to the loads and code you chose through the design process. It is very important to confirm and make sure you are designing to the right loads and code. If you do not know the system will help you with the default for the zip code but you need to take that information and ask your local officials to confirm the loads.

There are also videos that will help you through the design process but it is really simple.

If you get hung up just PM me and I can walk you through it. No obligation and it's free. Rapidsetbuildings.com and click on "get a quote" on the upper menu.

Thanks, Larry
 
FAA Building height FARs

I heard there is a website link that uses google maps to give approximate maximum hangar or other building heights near airports. Anyone know the site/link?
 
Hangar height

Usually each airport has a board that makes the rules. But one rule I do know of or have at least heard of though the years of designing hangars is the FAA has a rule that the a buildings height can be no higher then a 1/12 slope from the center of the runway.
So if your taxiway runs parallel to the runway do the math at a 1 foot raise in 12 feet from the runway centerline. That should give you the max height. If your new hangar is away from the runway it would go back to the board of the airport, if they have a height rule.

It would be great if someone from the FAA chime in on this one.
Larry
 
Give it a try, it's free and easy.



If you get hung up just PM me and I can walk you through it. No obligation and it's free. Rapidsetbuildings.com and click on "get a quote" on the upper menu.

Thanks, Larry

I can attest to the easy part of it, and that Larry is helpful and easy to deal with.

Larry, glad to see you have a 14 going:D
 
Usually each airport has a board that makes the rules. But one rule I do know of or have at least heard of though the years of designing hangars is the FAA has a rule that the a buildings height can be no higher then a 1/12 slope from the center of the runway.
So if your taxiway runs parallel to the runway do the math at a 1 foot raise in 12 feet from the runway centerline. That should give you the max height. If your new hangar is away from the runway it would go back to the board of the airport, if they have a height rule.

.......................

Larry

A little hard to read, but the FAR 77.25 is explained here...

http://www.airspaceusa.com/FAR_77.25_Civil_Airport_Imaginary_Surfaces.htm

The slope you mention is actually 7:1 sideways to the runway and is from the runway edge. The approach slope is typically 20:1 for a VFR runway and widens as you get further away from the threshold.

The whole thing is a pretty complex 3-D diagram. :)

Forgot to mention -

Of course the Airport Commission (or whoever is in charge) can override. If the Airport has had any Federal $$$ there should be an Airport Master Plan available. This will detail possible future expansions, and the last thing you need is to plan a hangar in the location of the future crosswind runway. :)
 
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No doubt you have your reasons for building with wood, and for having a flat ceiling. But I keep seeing all that space up there above the ceiling, and I bet it's unusable with wood trusses supporting the roof.
 
As many high windows as possible to let the natural light in. Especially on the north side so sunlight doesn't fry stuff. Tinted windows on the hanger doors.
 
Vic,
What are your thoughts on your 12' ceilings? Do you wish you would have gone taller? That is probably the biggest thing I waffle on is whether to go 12 or 14' on the ceiling.

Dan

It depends on what your future desire plans are for airplanes. Mine was an RV-10 and a Stearman, and they both fit really well. Having the higher ceilings makes it a lot harder to heat and cool. Especially having the open ceilings. Almost impossible to reasonably heat and cool it.

I also got direction from the other half that the hangar couldn't overshadow the house. :) That was easy to fix by building the house a little bigger. Now the house is too big for just the 2 of us.

Vic
 
Vic,
What are your thoughts on your 12' ceilings? Do you wish you would have gone taller? That is probably the biggest thing I waffle on is whether to go 12 or 14' on the ceiling.

Dan

I built with 14 ft eaves and now wish I went with 16 ft. This would enable you to stand upright on the ceiling/roof of any internal small rooms you create. A storage room with more storage above is a good way of getting junk off the floor.
 
Sidewalls

I went with 18 ft sidewalls which allowed me to run pallet racking along the walls for storage and workbench. Used pallet racking can be cheap if you take your time finding it. Put living quarters/office above a raised platform with 9 ft ceilings, that way you don't loose floor space for office. The 9 ft ceiling part is useful for workshop etc. LED lighting is cheap off eBay, I used UFO HighBay LED lights.
 
Rule #1. Built the biggest hanger possible.

Rule #2. Any plane put in the hangar will be available for you to fly. ;)
 
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