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  #1  
Old 07-28-2019, 01:35 PM
rcpaisley's Avatar
rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 279
Default EFII System32 - UPDATE

Here's the System32 update (more info at www.flyefii.com).

System32 has been running for a year now.
100 systems sold, 50 systems delivered, 20 already flying.
Modern engine management has finally made it to the experimental aircraft world.

System32 is the only fully mapped ignition and fuel system designed specifically for experimental aircraft. The 1990s technology gold boxes we used to use have a simplified mapping scheme that steps from point to point (no interpolation, batch fire system).

The System32 ECUs have more than 75 times the processing power and 10 times the RF noise immunity of the old boxes. System32 is a semi-sequential fuel injection system with full 3D mapping - just like your car. Upgrade customers report improved starting, smoother operation and increased efficiency over the previous batch fire, simple map system.

We are grateful to all of our patient customers who are ready to take delivery of their System32 kits. We are getting several kits out per week. It will take awhile to work through all the back orders.

It's a seven day a week work year for us. No time to blather daily on internet forums.

Oshkosh was awesome. Multiple System32 equipped aircraft were there.
Reno will be here soon. We will have systems flying at various levels of the Sport and Biplane classes.

We love our customers - thank you for all your support!

Robert Paisley
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:37 PM
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mill2978 mill2978 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Erie, CO (KEIK)
Posts: 234
Talking If you want modern EFII for your aircraft call Robert

Iíve got nearly 100hours on my RV8 since it was signed off in October and have been running the System32 since day 1.

The System32 has been fantastic, the engine starts incredibly easily(no such thing as a hot start with the System32),it runs smooth and efficiently. Setup and programming is easy with the controller which also provides key redundant engine information should the G3X fail.

Robert has been responsive to my questions over the last couple years and has worked with me to customize the install for my needs. I highly recommend the System32.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions Iím happy to talk about my experience.
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Aaron Miller
RV8 N127KT - First Flight October 16, 2018
Donation made for 2018
http://www.mykitlog.com/AaronMiller/
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  #3  
Old 07-28-2019, 03:00 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,711
Default Ditto

Same for me. I am not flying yet but Robert has been there for all questions and has helped customize my system32 for my -10 install.

Feel free to contact me as well if you want to discuss it...
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Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues Paid 2018,...Thanks DR+
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  #4  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:05 AM
Cliff Goldstein Cliff Goldstein is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 10
Default PERFORMANCE EFII

I purchased the original system in the gold boxes from Robert in 2015 for an RV-14A with a Superior XP400 and Engine.
The technology for Electonic ignition is not new, but to adopt it for an aircraft for me was. I know why we have two magnetos in an aircraft, it's an electro mechanical device that will fail, and that's why we do a mag check prior to every departure. For. Me, taking on Roberts system was a leap of faith, and while there were many that had the system prior to my install, that wasn't me.

In fairness Having not installed any electronic fuel or ignition, the instructions were confusing, but Robert stepped me through them as the system was installed. That included nights, Saturday's and Sunday's. So the biggest question, will somebody be there to help was answered. Did it go smoothly?
For the most part, very smoothly. Since we're all building one off proto types,
There was some of that " how am I going to do that?"
Robert always had a suggestion that helped guide a solution.

How's it run? Smoothest 4 cylinder I've ever sat in, and when others road in it everyone commented on the smoothness of the engine.

I do run LOP on my cross on all my cross countries so the system easily accommodates that, but if you never adjusted the fuel the engine performed flawlessly with out makining any adjustments all the up through 18,000 feet.

Here's the best part, my wife's a non current pilot from many years ago, so she does enjoy flying. But the simplicity and performance, put back in the left seat.

A good friend took on one of the first System 32 systems in a new RV-8
Once the system was dialed in, the engine operated with exactly the same smoothness and performance, he could not be happier.

Thank you Robert for helping to move the industry forward
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:57 AM
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DanH DanH is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 8,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpaisley View Post
The System32 ECUs have more than 75 times the processing power and 10 times the RF noise immunity of the old boxes.
Did it need the 75x and 10x? If so, why? What does it deliver to the user?

Quote:
System32 is a semi-sequential fuel injection system with full 3D mapping - just like your car.
Might want to explain how "semi-sequential" differs from batch and sequential.

Anyway, it's a feature. What is the benefit? Why do you feel it is better than other systems?
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2019, 09:32 AM
upperdeck upperdeck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 119
Default upgrade from legacy product

What does it take to upgrade from the EFII legacy product?
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2019, 10:14 AM
rcpaisley's Avatar
rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 279
Default System32 upgrade process

Quote:
Originally Posted by upperdeck View Post
What does it take to upgrade from the EFII legacy product?
Just call or email and we can get you on the schedule.
Upgrades from the old system include:
System32 ECUs, 2ea.
System32 Cockpit Controller.
System32 Main Wire Harness.
System32 Crank Trigger.

There are a couple of wiring differences with the control switches on the new system. The ignition run-up switches control P-Lead signal wires from the ECUs and the ECU select switch wiring is different for the fuel control.
These are minimal effort changes - see the drawings in the new install manual.

The rest of your old system remains unchanged. The new control electronics can be installed in a day. It's a pretty easy upgrade.

Robert
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Last edited by rcpaisley : 07-29-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2019, 10:46 AM
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rvator51 rvator51 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 1,042
Default

With the semi-sequential injection, does the fuel flow go down since you are injecting on demand instead of constant fuel flow? An estimated of how much is saved?
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Thomas Velvick
Goodyear, AZ (KGYR)

2018 Donation sent.

N53KT RV-6a finished 2018, Flying
N7053L RV-4 Wife's RV
N56KT RV-4 Finishing
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2019, 10:59 AM
rcpaisley's Avatar
rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 279
Default Why System32 ????????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Did it need the 75x and 10x? If so, why? What does it deliver to the user?

Might want to explain how "semi-sequential" differs from batch and sequential.

Anyway, it's a feature. What is the benefit? Why do you feel it is better than other systems?
Good questions Dan,
System32 is a migration from entry level automotive electronics designed in the 1990s to state of the art, current technology electronics designed with the reliability, redundancy, engine interface, airframe interface and pilot interface required to properly serve this market. That may sound nebulous, but that's the glossy overview.

We've been involved with microprocessor based engine electronics since the late 1980s. A lot has changed since then with microprocessors and engine management. Not unlike the change you have seen with cell phones from the Motorola brick phone to current smartphone technology. The user interface and processing capabilities available today are light years ahead of what was available 30 years ago. Coincidentally, the processor used in our legacy system was similar to what was in a Motorola brick phone (same brand even).

System32 uses a 32 bit RISC processor (that means it's extremely fast, especially with math processes), a four layer gold plated circuit board, EMI filtering on every connection to the outside world, a high end internal power supply that keeps the ECU running with input voltages from 3.5v to 40v, a high speed user interface (to the Controller) for display and control, seamless integration of two ECUs (the user manages one system).

The high speed math capability of the 32 bit processors allows us to implement fully interpolated 3D mapping for both ignition and fuel control.
This solved a couple of problems that we had with the old system. The old simple mapping causes limitations in handling detonation margins at take off for fixed pitch props and during decent with constant speed props. The new mapping fixes both of these issues and surprisingly is a much simpler scheme to work with as a user. If you Google "fuel map" and look at the images, you will see countless examples of 3D mapping. This is how all modern engine management systems work. The System32 ECUs build the curve between map points, there is no stepping from point to point as in the old simple mapping scheme. New values for fuel delivery and ignition timing are re-calculated after every ignition event (2 times per rev for 4 cyl, 3 time per rev for 6 cyl engines). You have to have a high speed processor to do this. 30 year old hobby processors are not up to this task.

Aircraft environments have a lot of radio frequency events occurring - comm transmissions, transponder transmissions, ADSB output, ignition spark events.
These are all highly energetic electrical events in a vehicle that may or may not have systems properly grounded. The more electrical noise immunity available in critical systems, the better - especially in engine management systems. System32 has extremely good EMI resistance.

System32 is a semi-sequential fuel injection system. Our original system was a batch fire system - typical in original implementations of automotive electronic fuel injection. Batch fire means that the fuel delivery is not timed to the intake valve position. Fuel squirts into the intake tract at some time and the next time the intake valve opens, the fuel gets sucked into the cylinder along with the induction air. Batch fire systems end up with different fuel timing on each cylinder - this works, but is not ideal. Semi-sequential fuel injection is timed to the intake valve opening. Full sequential systems use a crankshaft position sensor to determine which cycle the engine is on and inject fuel only on the intake stroke of each cylinder - fuel is delivered to a given cylinder once every two revolutions of the engine. Semi-sequential systems (like System32) do not include a camshaft position sensor. They deliver timed fuel on every rotation of the engine. On one rotation, the intake valve is open (intake stroke), on the next rotation the intake valve is closed (power stroke). Half of the fuel is delivered when the intake valve is open, the other half of the fuel is delivered on the opposite stroke when the intake valve is closed. The result of sequential or semi-sequential fuel delivery is that there is always fuel delivered in concert with the opening of the intake valve. This yields improved starting, smoother operation, better off-idle throttle response, and greater efficiency.

Other fun things about System32:
Firmware can be field updated with an SD card.
The system logs all system data to the Controller SD card (1, 5, or 10 second increments).
Live fuel tuning via the Controller is VERY simple.
3D maps can be viewed and manipulated in Excel.
Compatible with Tecat torque sensors for live cockpit display of torque and horsepower (turn your run-in stand or your airframe into a dyno).
Proportional and tunable ADI (methanol injection) control for highly boosted engines (Reno).
System32 can be remotely tuned and controlled (UAV).
Live telemetry interface (UAV and Reno).
**** The above functions are all included in the current firmware****
(Now you can start to see the advantages of having a powerful ECU

We had a LONG wish list of features we wished we had when we were using the old ECUs - now we have all of these features and more.

Robert
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Last edited by rcpaisley : 07-30-2019 at 08:26 AM.
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2019, 11:43 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 4,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcpaisley View Post
The result of sequential or semi-sequential fuel delivery is that there is always fuel delivered in concert with the opening of the intake valve.
I think it would be more fair to say that half of the fuel is delivered in concert and the other half of the fuel is NOT delivered in concert with the valve opening, just like a batch system. Curious how this give the benefits typically associated with sequential injection over batch.

Also, a fair amount of design work is required to get the timing right with sequential injection if any benefits over batch are to be expected. Though not sure this applies to your system, as the injectors are very far from the intake valve. I also struggle to see the benefits of sequential injection when the injector is 6" from the valve.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 07-29-2019 at 11:47 AM.
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