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  #1  
Old 08-22-2019, 05:54 PM
RandyAB RandyAB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 413
Default Builder's insurance in Canada

Good day all.

I'm looking for recommendations from fellow Canadians on builder's insurance. I'm going to be moving my RV10 to a hangar that I lucked into in the very near future, but before I transport it though I want to have it fully insured. I called Marsh Insurance here in Alberta and under their Silverwings program they want over $2k to insure my non-flying aircraft. I thought this was ludicrous. Does anybody else have any suggestions? They would be much appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:24 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Randy - welcome to aviation insurance in Canada. Bend over. And don't expect to even get a thank you when they're done! :-) We've had several insurers pull out of the Canadian market in the last 12-18 months, leaving only a few big players. Prices are going up, not just in Canada but in the US market as well.

In a conversation with my insurance underwriter (the underwriter that writes the policy, not the broker that sells it) I was told to expect a minimum 10% price increase this year, with many customers seeing as much as a 30% increase. It's painful time to insure an airplane, thanks to lots of nasty weather having increased claims rates, and to the Boeing 737 MAX fiasco, amongst other cost drivers.

You can join EAA and get a quote through their C-PLAN insurance program. I had my project insured through them and as a flying airplane it once again is insured through them.

One other place to look for a quote is Air 1 insurance - he's based in Vancouver and is straightforward to deal with.

Keep in mind that whoever quotes you will base their quote on insured hull value - the annual cost will be a percentage of that hull value. You need to make sure you assign a realistic value to the hull and that you have an agreed-to method of escalating that hull value as the aircraft moves closer to completion.

One thing I found amazing was that components of my aircraft were covered by the builder's insurance while they were being shipped and while they were being modified or updated by the vendor. A pleasant surprise, but when one is writing a big cheque for insurance one wants only pleasant surprises!
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  #3  
Old 08-22-2019, 06:45 PM
RandyAB RandyAB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 413
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Awesome reply. Thanks! I will follow up on the tips.

Boat insurance is bad this year too with similar increases across the board. These are still first world problems though.....
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Randy P.
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RV10 - QB wings and fuse. Working on cabin top
St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Reserved:C-GRPY
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  #4  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:29 PM
Flying Canuck Flying Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 300
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Yeah, you want to check your stated hull value, particularly if you haven't got avionics, or your engine. I was under $1000 with Marsh/Silver Wings 2 years ago, the $2000+ only kicked in when the plane was ready to run. I don't recall what I set for a hull value while building, it was close to the full amount because I had most of the components. You will be pleasantly surprised at the coverage for transportation, which includes items en route to you for the build (I think) and warranty send aways (as long as it's not a spare or second part).

My Gold Wings coverage dropped nicely for my second year, mostly because I hit 250 hours total time.
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  #5  
Old 08-22-2019, 08:39 PM
RandyAB RandyAB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Albert, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Canuck View Post
Yeah, you want to check your stated hull value, particularly if you haven't got avionics, or your engine. I was under $1000 with Marsh/Silver Wings 2 years ago, the $2000+ only kicked in when the plane was ready to run. I don't recall what I set for a hull value while building, it was close to the full amount because I had most of the components. You will be pleasantly surprised at the coverage for transportation, which includes items en route to you for the build (I think) and warranty send aways (as long as it's not a spare or second part).

My Gold Wings coverage dropped nicely for my second year, mostly because I hit 250 hours total time.
By Marsh I was quoted $500 per $50000 and $125 on top for liability which is obligatory. Right now I'm sitting with a full QB kit and a new engine which is about $130K USD roughly. I asked them to quote me under their Goldwings program as well. I'm waiting to hear back from them.
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Randy P.
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RV10 - QB wings and fuse. Working on cabin top
St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Reserved:C-GRPY
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  #6  
Old 08-23-2019, 07:58 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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As an aside... If you don't know your exact hull value yet, you should be keeping a spreadsheet that tracks all capital costs for your aircraft build. Itemize cost, and equally importantly, the taxes, spent while building. Document everything, and keep the receipts (and in the case of receipts from big box stores that are printed on thermal paper, scans of receipts... They do fade over time).

When you finish the aircraft and register it, you'll get the letter from Revenue Canada demanding PST/GST/HST as applicable. If you can show you paid it while building, you'll get one of the few chances in life to send a "get stuffed" letter back to them. Although I recommend being a little more tactful than that with your wording...
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  #7  
Old 08-23-2019, 09:31 AM
kearney kearney is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
As an aside... If you don't know your exact hull value yet, you should be keeping a spreadsheet that tracks all capital costs for your aircraft build. Itemize cost, and equally importantly, the taxes, spent while building. Document everything, and keep the receipts (and in the case of receipts from big box stores that are printed on thermal paper, scans of receipts... They do fade over time).

When you finish the aircraft and register it, you'll get the letter from Revenue Canada demanding PST/GST/HST as applicable. If you can show you paid it while building, you'll get one of the few chances in life to send a "get stuffed" letter back to them. Although I recommend being a little more tactful than that with your wording...
Rob

I have never heard of this kind of query from CCRA.

I have registered 3 aircraft over the years and have never had a query.

Keeping receipts is never a bad idea, but this kind of query from CCRA makes no sense given that everything from outside Canada is imported through Canada Customs who assess and collect GST (and PST if you are unfortunate enough to live outside Alberta). Likewise, you pay GST (and PST ) on everything bought locally. This kind of query would be like CCRA asking you to prove that you paid taxes on household goods.

As an aside, I could see them being interested in things if you registered a foreign aircraft in Canada. In that case they would want to know if you went through the import procedure. But that is entirely different from a amateur built aircraft built from components in Canada.

Did you have a bad CCRA experience?

Cheers

Les

RV10 C-GROK Flying
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2019, 08:55 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kearney View Post
I have never heard of this kind of query from CCRA.
This query does not come from CCRA. It comes either from Revenue Canada or maybe it was the Province directly... You've got me wondering now. Any transfer of aircraft between owners, or new aircraft registration, triggers an alert at their office, and a letter is mailed out to the new owner asking that they submit the sales tax on the transfer or proof that it was paid. This is irrespective of it being an import or a sale between two people in Canada. When the name is changed on the registration, they will get notified, and you'll get a letter... Presuming your contact info is correct with Transport and the sale is reported properly.

Quote:
Did you have a bad CCRA experience?
No, my import and registration was trivial. I flew the plane back from the US myself, paid the sales taxes to CCRA on arrival. Received a letter from Revenue Canada a month or two later asking for the PST or proof that it was paid, so I mailed back a copy of the receipt from CCRA. Never heard another word.
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2019, 09:05 AM
RandyAB RandyAB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
This query does not come from CCRA. It comes either from Revenue Canada or maybe it was the Province directly... You've got me wondering now. Any transfer of aircraft between owners, or new aircraft registration, triggers an alert at their office, and a letter is mailed out to the new owner asking that they submit the sales tax on the transfer or proof that it was paid. This is irrespective of it being an import or a sale between two people in Canada. When the name is changed on the registration, they will get notified, and you'll get a letter... Presuming your contact info is correct with Transport and the sale is reported properly.


No, my import and registration was trivial. I flew the plane back from the US myself, paid the sales taxes to CCRA on arrival. Received a letter from Revenue Canada a month or two later asking for the PST or proof that it was paid, so I mailed back a copy of the receipt from CCRA. Never heard another word.
CCRA and Revenue Canada are the same entity. Perhaps it was provincial. That would explain why Les did not get a letter since we here in Alberta donít have to worry about PST.
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Randy P.
1st time builder
RV10 - QB wings and fuse. Working on cabin top
St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Reserved:C-GRPY
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