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How much is it worth??

rvator9a

Well Known Member
Hello to all. Well life has overtaken me once again. I spent 12 years building my 9a, and I have been flying it for 2 years. It has been a big event in my life and I have enjoyed all of it.
Now the bad part, like many my life situation has changed. I am lucky enough to not have it be a medical problem and for that I am thankful as I have read some heart wrenching stories about our fellow RVers.
I am now going through a divorce that is likely to cost me my pride and joy. As probably many can figure out the airplane is now a pawn in her lawyers hands. It is easy for an uniformed person to go on trade a plane and try to assess that all RVs are worth 100k. I built this plane on a budget over a period of time to spread out the cost.
It is a RV9a with a used 0-290d, sterba prop, dynon d100, icom 210, it is unpainted with unfinished wheel pants.
I am wondering if any members know of a way to get an RV appraised? I am located in southern Maine. I need to try to establish what an actual Selling price is as opposed to an advertised price.
Thanks Bob
 
There are aircraft appraisers who can help you. Look carefully for someone who will provide a realistic market value assessment. Ask around. Propose that you hire the appraiser. In my case, the ex hired an aircraft appraiser. I outlined several value reducing aspects of the plane (engine issues). At the end of the process, I asked what was up with the value he mentioned. He said, "I just can't go back to her with any less." It's a very subjective process.
 
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Wow. Tough situation to call.

It depends A LOT on the participants and their lawyers.

I doubt the soon to be ex wants the plane. Probably more interested in the house and car(s).

If you want to keep the plane, the easiest way is to hire someone to assess all of the marital property. Right down to the dirty dishes.

Then you can horse trade for the plane in lieu of a car or half a house or the "fill in the blank" you don't care enough about it.

It will be staggering, at first, to see how little it is all worth. It's no where near dollars paid.

But it a neutral party valuation makes 50/50 easy to determine for the judge, and the people you pay must find ways to substantiate the value placed on things.

Sorry to hear you're going through this. Apparently I've been there.
 
Pick a price and if she thinks you are trying to pull the wool over her eyes, tell her she can take the 9 for that price and you will keep something else. Shotgun clause is what this is called. Makes it fair for both sides.
 
Aircraft Costs

Did you log all expenditures during the build? I tried and probably recorded over 95% of the cost of kit, tools, hardware and "stuff".

Discount the big items that require overhaul based on hours / time: engine, prop, hoses, even obsolete avionics and dinged paint.

Not totally accurate, but a good argument to use against a blood-sucking scumbag lawyer. Sorry if I have offended other scumbags by associating you with blood-sucking lawyers.
 
It's only worth what somebody pays for it, don't listen to the soulless lawyers scare tactics. Ultimately, if it's joint property, and you can't agree on a deal, you will just have to sell it and the proceeds go into the giant pot of divorce sucks.
 
Hum....tough one....I heard of a story once... :rolleyes: a particular engine had engine problems and they thought it need a rebuild and later found out that a couple pushrods were too short.........
 
For how much is it insured? Methinks that would be a good starting point, unless it?s over insured.
Don
 
I'd post a public request for recent buyers and sellers to PM you with actual sales prices and the details (engine, avionics, paint, etc) on recently sold/purchased RV-9's and see if you can learn something from the comp's.
 
I?m no lawyer, but You sold it to me for $1 a few months ago. Once everything is over come get your rv back. ****, you?ll even split the profits with her.
 
A 9A alot like that sold last year..about 14 months ago in northern cal for 35 k..tried to by it..was actually on my way from Illinois via commercial airline..and got all the way to portland, and the guy called me and said he sold it..boy was I bummed..
had a 290, and was white with no stripes....Forest something was his name, had flat plate wingtips...so you could deduct some from yours. not too many O290 powered 9s around..so the ones that have sold should give a good argument to that high value. It went to somebody in Indiana. Maybe they monitor here and could chime in, or help you with an affidavit..or a copy of the bill of sale..??
 
Been thru this myself. Sucks big time.
I would avoid the appraiser to save money unless you need one to counter a value established by an appraiser hired by your ex. Don?t spend the money unless you have to. Make yourself the expert on its value by doing your homework and checking ads for other planes and knowing how those planes vary from yours. The value you insure it for says a lot, but I made the case that I insured it for $10K more than it was worth because it only cost me $50 to do so (it was true) and the judge (my divorce went to trial) accepted my valuation. Most divorce attorneys and judges won?t know that unlike car insurance, you can collect the full stated value of an airplane from the insurance once it is totaled, so you may need to explain that as part of the reasoning for the elevated insured value if that?s an argument you want to make.

Good luck. All things will pass.

Erich
 
You put your time and effort building that plane. If you were helped by your spouse, then there may be an argument on the effort value.

Deleted comment - was poorly worded and misrepresented my thoughts.
 
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If things got nasty, I would read post #7 carefully.

IANAL, buuuut....I would advise against doing anything that smells of fraudulent activity. Judges take a dim view of trying to "hide" assets or purposefully misrepresent them, a situation I have seen (no, it wasn't me that did it).

Get a reasonable appraisal, or do one yourself, and let the lawyers negotiate it fairly. It's not worth the risk, nor the loss of self-integrity.
 
Google Search

IANAL, buuuut....I would advise against doing anything that smells of fraudulent activity. Judges take a dim view of trying to "hide" assets or purposefully misrepresent them, a situation I have seen (no, it wasn't me that did it).

Get a reasonable appraisal, or do one yourself, and let the lawyers negotiate it fairly. It's not worth the risk, nor the loss of self-integrity.

And of course any descent divorce lawyer probably has a legal assistant that does things like search google for “RV-9 Value”. What are the odds that they’ll be led right to this site?

Skylor
Engineer...Not a Lawyer...
 
And of course any descent divorce lawyer probably has a legal assistant that does things like search google for ?RV-9 Value?. What are the odds that they?ll be led right to this site?

Skylor
Engineer...Not a Lawyer...

Yep. And the bottom line (no pun intended) is that getting "clever" with things like valuations is a form of lying. What's the first thing an attorney will tell you about depositions, filings, etc.? NEVER LIE.

You can fight legal battles hard, but fair...but lying can cost you dearly.

Here's hoping things work out in the end.
 
Been there, done that

I went down that same road quite a few years ago, but my -4 was almost done,but not quite flying yet. I had a beautiful airpark home that I designed and built, a plane almost ready to fly, and 2 kids..wife wanted out, and wanted everything we had. She told her lawyer the plane was worth 100K ! I just knew the end of my dream was going to be sold at auction under the request of a court system. Not on my watch! I had it professionally appraised for its current state/condition (her lawyer was not well informed), and managed to work out the "equitable distribution" values to where I kept the -4 and moved on from the nasty divorce...you don't need to loose the plane you built !!!
 
I appreciate the replies. I have tried to keep my dealings in the divorce open and honest. I had the house appraised by a 3rd party to avoid conflicts. The problem is that I built on the cheap and if someone uninformed checks trade a plane prices they think an 8 must be worth less than a 9 because it has a lower number. It is a tough thing to explain to a lawyer that doesn't know RVs. Its also hard to explain just how much value the engine has on the value of the plane or even how many people wont buy it because it has an 0-290.
If anyone here has sold a similar plane and can relate their experience I would appreciate it. I have kind of resigned myself to the fact that I will have to sacrifice the plane so I can keep my children in the house.
 
I went through this with a LongEZ in 1996. I offered my ex a $38K valuation but she rejected that as too low. She found an aircraft appraiser, but he valued it at $25K (John Denver had just perished in a LongEZ). She then found another appraiser who pegged it at $65K (Oshkosh winner, etc). I had Rutan's GM testify at the trial, and the judge set the value at $19K:D

Of course, my ex asked then asked for my initial $38K suggestion, but after dragging me through the mud we kept it at the court value of $19K :p

Good luck, I hope you are able to keep the plane you built with your own two hands.
 
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Sorry to hear that, but ask your lawyer the proper way to recover your lost build time.
Had a buddy that went through this with a '69 Camaro and his wife told everyone it was valued at $45,000. He had 2200 hours of build time and actually kept a pretty good log. His lawyer valued his time because of the forced sale and lost time at $20.00 per hour. The court agreed that a forced sale has a lost time valuation and they threw the car out of the fight.

Sounds like this might be a ploy I would try here!

Good Luck!
 
A forced sale also exposes the builder to liability lawsuits from the new owner and/or their family in the event of a crash. I would bring that up in court, along with the assertion that you never intended to sell the airplane or expose yourself to that liability, and that if forced to do so by the court then you want spouse-provided liability insurance to cover you.
 
you can spin anything a lot of ways and in the end it is the judge that decides what sticks to the wall.if i were to bring in the aspect of build time i would be paying $ for the enjoyment i got from the build.
 
it's easy

Put a reasonable value on it. If she doesn't like your value, tell her you will be glad to deliver it to her for half of whatever value she places on it, and you will just build another one. When her lawyer says she doesn't want the airplane, tell him that you are now offering a lower value for it. The negotiations get easier after that. I told the mediator that the only thing in the marriage I had any emotional attachment to left the house on her own two feet. They had no power after that.

And hang in there, life gets better sooner than you think if you let it.
 
Part of the answer depends on whether this is an amicable parting of the ways or a hostile one.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I wouldn't wish divorce on my worst enemy; it's not fun. But you never know. Sometimes the worst moments of our lives tend to be what is necessary to get to the best moments of our lives.

Good luck.
 
Unsolicited advice from my being through it myself and acting as an advisor in a number of friends divorces, both male and female -

#1 - Lawyers are not your friends. Do not think for a second they are "on your side". They are on their own side not yours. They have a personal interest in creating disagreement. ANYTHING you can do to negotiate without their help will serve you both well. You can easily pick up books (like divorce for Dummies) that will spell out what to expect for your state in terms of financial expectations

#2 - Do anything/everything you can do to NOT fight. Swallow your pride, keep everything "business not emotional... emotional responses will cost you money. If your opposing spouse tries to use emotions as a weapon just say "I believe I understand what you're saying but I'll need a day or two to think that over" don't let urgency and emotion push you into hasty decisions

#3 - You are both likely emotionally injured so be ready for barbs to be thrown your way, reread #2

Lastly - I'd highly suggest doing all you can to keep the plane. This will be great therapy through a troubling time. Don't worry about finances later having something like this during a trying time is good for you. The more you make it appear as though you're emotionally attached to it that may spark more of a battle on the other's part. As said earlier come up with a realistic value... if she thinks that is too low then offer her to keep the plane herself that was great advice.

Do all you can to keep things copacetic. Don't let the lawyers manage you you manage the lawyers. I dated a lady who's husband had spent over $500K on attorneys fees and they still weren't through the divorce yet. You have the ability to manage this, as crappy as it is and as hurt as you are but you avhe to manage it yourself.

Best of luck
 
Wow, I have been thru two divorces and I could have not written this post any better. Great advice given there, please read and heed it if you can.

Unsolicited advice from my being through it myself and acting as an advisor in a number of friends divorces, both male and female -

#1 - Lawyers are not your friends. Do not think for a second they are "on your side". They are on their own side not yours. They have a personal interest in creating disagreement. ANYTHING you can do to negotiate without their help will serve you both well. You can easily pick up books (like divorce for Dummies) that will spell out what to expect for your state in terms of financial expectations

#2 - Do anything/everything you can do to NOT fight. Swallow your pride, keep everything "business not emotional... emotional responses will cost you money. If your opposing spouse tries to use emotions as a weapon just say "I believe I understand what you're saying but I'll need a day or two to think that over" don't let urgency and emotion push you into hasty decisions

#3 - You are both likely emotionally injured so be ready for barbs to be thrown your way, reread #2

Lastly - I'd highly suggest doing all you can to keep the plane. This will be great therapy through a troubling time. Don't worry about finances later having something like this during a trying time is good for you. The more you make it appear as though you're emotionally attached to it that may spark more of a battle on the other's part. As said earlier come up with a realistic value... if she thinks that is too low then offer her to keep the plane herself that was great advice.

Do all you can to keep things copacetic. Don't let the lawyers manage you you manage the lawyers. I dated a lady who's husband had spent over $500K on attorneys fees and they still weren't through the divorce yet. You have the ability to manage this, as crappy as it is and as hurt as you are but you avhe to manage it yourself.

Best of luck
 
I appreciate all the comments. While the divorce isn't hostile its certainly not amicable. I have done as much as I can to keep emotion out of it, but it is difficult at times. Unfortunately the lawyers are involved due to being unable to have a productive discussion with my ex.
I am just concerned with getting an accurate value of my plane but because I built as cheaply as possible so it is difficult to convey to non RVers that there is a big disparity in value depending on engine, prop, avionics, paint, ect. I haven't figured out how to tell a lawyer the difference in value between an 0-290 and an 0-360??
 
I appreciate all the comments. While the divorce isn't hostile its certainly not amicable. I have done as much as I can to keep emotion out of it, but it is difficult at times. Unfortunately the lawyers are involved due to being unable to have a productive discussion with my ex.
I am just concerned with getting an accurate value of my plane but because I built as cheaply as possible so it is difficult to convey to non RVers that there is a big disparity in value depending on engine, prop, avionics, paint, ect. I haven't figured out how to tell a lawyer the difference in value between an 0-290 and an 0-360??

Just tell him the difference is "70" :)

Or, 290 is 80% of 360, so the O-290 is worth 80% of the O-360... :)
 
I am just concerned with getting an accurate value of my plane but because I built as cheaply as possible so it is difficult to convey to non RVers that there is a big disparity in value depending on engine, prop, avionics, paint, ect. I haven't figured out how to tell a lawyer the difference in value between an 0-290 and an 0-360??

Many of the RVs on the market have $10's of thousands in their panels, and another $10k+ in the paint job. A newish engine is another $25k. $10k more for a CS prop. By showing somebody what those things cost, as opposed to what yours cost, you should be able to make your case. In general, it seems most RVs (other than 10s, maybe), are worth about the sum of the products put into them, plus the kit cost. Labor is pretty worthless. You could print out a cost sheet showing list prices for all these things, maybe even get a paint quote, and make a pretty good case.

If it helps, I also have an unpainted RV and fairly simple panel. Sport SX EFIX, single comm radio. Used transponder and Dynon D10. Mid-time engine and fixed pitch prop. I put my hull value at $50k, which is about what I believe I have in the plane, minus tools and labor.

Chris
 
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