Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
Switching props
- Thread starter alcladrv
- Start date
N908RV
Well Known Member
I'm trying this from memory, but IIRC, the aft backplate/bulkhead and the f'glass spinner itself are the only two common parts between a CS and a FP spinner assembly.
I suppose you could order a new forward bulkhead and a CS aft bulkhead reinforcement piece. But, IMHO, it would be a whole lot easier to make a new one than try to salvage and re-use.
My 2c.
Rob
I suppose you could order a new forward bulkhead and a CS aft bulkhead reinforcement piece. But, IMHO, it would be a whole lot easier to make a new one than try to salvage and re-use.
My 2c.
Rob
Martin Sutter
Well Known Member
I did that switch on my 180HP RV6 a few years ago and would not recommend trying to use any of the fixed pitch parts. The whole set up of the cs prop is too different and the spinner cut-out not the same at all.
Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Not
Chris,
Hard to believe but it may actually be slower. Takeoff and climb performance will be better but not top speed or cruise perhaps. The reason being that you cannot run a CS prop at 2700 cruise but a fixed pitch Catto and others can. More RPM=more horsepower. We outrun quite a few CS propped RV's
Regards,
Chris,
Hard to believe but it may actually be slower. Takeoff and climb performance will be better but not top speed or cruise perhaps. The reason being that you cannot run a CS prop at 2700 cruise but a fixed pitch Catto and others can. More RPM=more horsepower. We outrun quite a few CS propped RV's
Regards,
Last edited by a moderator:
Prop Change & FSDO
I did a prop change one year ago and did NOT call the FAA FSDO because of the following reasons. My "Operation Limitation Letter" given to me when certifying the aircraft, which I believe are all standard letters, has a paragraph on modifications and what the owner has to do. This letter is a mandatory written agreement between the aircraft owner and the FAA, signed by the FAA, at least through their DAR, and compliance is mandatory. It states that major modifications require the aircraft be placed back into phase 1 for a period of at least 4 hours (maybe 5?) to determine if any of the V speeds have changed and of any adverse flight characteristics. A notation is to be placed in the logs of the modification and that you have returned the aircraft back to phase 1 testing. Upon completion of the new phase 1, you again write in a statement verifying you have found the aircraft safe and returning it back to Phase 2 operation. All the actual wording is in the Operation Limitation Letter so don't do what I have decribed but rather do what your letter says.
Prior to the modification I did ask at least 4 FSDO inspectors, most at EAA OSH, if I needed their approval for the change. Since I am a retired FAA person I found it best to ask the same question to many people but read the regulations because most of these guys do not really know the regs, then make your own decision. The answer ranged from "yes, we will revoke your certificate of airworthiness and reissue a new one" to "call us, we will reinspect and give you a short test period". All wanted to get envolved and some with a not too user friendly attitude. A phone call to my DAR, who is also a friend, confirmed my decision to follow the Operational Limitations Letter. He affirmed my thinking so I changed the prop without advising the FAA at all making the change simple (and "legal").
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD 220 hours
RV8 wings
Northfield, MN
I did a prop change one year ago and did NOT call the FAA FSDO because of the following reasons. My "Operation Limitation Letter" given to me when certifying the aircraft, which I believe are all standard letters, has a paragraph on modifications and what the owner has to do. This letter is a mandatory written agreement between the aircraft owner and the FAA, signed by the FAA, at least through their DAR, and compliance is mandatory. It states that major modifications require the aircraft be placed back into phase 1 for a period of at least 4 hours (maybe 5?) to determine if any of the V speeds have changed and of any adverse flight characteristics. A notation is to be placed in the logs of the modification and that you have returned the aircraft back to phase 1 testing. Upon completion of the new phase 1, you again write in a statement verifying you have found the aircraft safe and returning it back to Phase 2 operation. All the actual wording is in the Operation Limitation Letter so don't do what I have decribed but rather do what your letter says.
Prior to the modification I did ask at least 4 FSDO inspectors, most at EAA OSH, if I needed their approval for the change. Since I am a retired FAA person I found it best to ask the same question to many people but read the regulations because most of these guys do not really know the regs, then make your own decision. The answer ranged from "yes, we will revoke your certificate of airworthiness and reissue a new one" to "call us, we will reinspect and give you a short test period". All wanted to get envolved and some with a not too user friendly attitude. A phone call to my DAR, who is also a friend, confirmed my decision to follow the Operational Limitations Letter. He affirmed my thinking so I changed the prop without advising the FAA at all making the change simple (and "legal").
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD 220 hours
RV8 wings
Northfield, MN
5 hours + log entry ...
The plane has to be put back into "Phase 1" for at least 5 hours of testing in the new configuration after a "major modification" (Prop change is considered major). After discovery of no adverse operating conditions, it is then put back into "Phase II".
James
... been there
The plane has to be put back into "Phase 1" for at least 5 hours of testing in the new configuration after a "major modification" (Prop change is considered major). After discovery of no adverse operating conditions, it is then put back into "Phase II".
James
... been there
Rosie
Well Known Member
Both Russ and James could be correct...but that depends on what your operating limitations say. I switched from FP to C/S prop in 2005. My operating limitations (dated June 2000) did not allow me to do what James described as the verbage allowing this was not included.
I contacted the local FSDO and their response was to issue me new operating limitations. The new limitations had the verbage to allow me to remove my fixed pitch prop, install the constant speed prop then put the plane back into Phase I for at least 5 hours flight testing (all done with complete annotations in the log books).
All FSDO contact was done via phone and snail-mail as I had to send in a copy of the limitations issued to me
Rosie
Summed up...
Paul summed it up...
Recommending what an RV owner must do in this type of situation is impossible. In the past 20 years a number of different versions of operating limitations have been issued. The operating limitations are the first thing any RV owner should look at when the have any regulation related question about their RV.
BTW if you have old operating limitations you can request to have them reissued to the latest version (even if you are not making any changes to the airplane at that time).
Both Russ and James could be correct...but that depends on what your operating limitations say. I switched from FP to C/S prop in 2005. My operating limitations (dated June 2000) did not allow me to do what James described as the verbage allowing this was not included.
I contacted the local FSDO and their response was to issue me new operating limitations. The new limitations had the verbage to allow me to remove my fixed pitch prop, install the constant speed prop then put the plane back into Phase I for at least 5 hours flight testing (all done with complete annotations in the log books).
All FSDO contact was done via phone and snail-mail as I had to send in a copy of the limitations issued to me
Paul summed it up...
Recommending what an RV owner must do in this type of situation is impossible. In the past 20 years a number of different versions of operating limitations have been issued. The operating limitations are the first thing any RV owner should look at when the have any regulation related question about their RV.
BTW if you have old operating limitations you can request to have them reissued to the latest version (even if you are not making any changes to the airplane at that time).
N908RV
Well Known Member
Thanks Paul, you are correct ...
I **should** have mentioned that "in theory, consistent with your documented operating limitations ...".
James
Both Russ and James could be correct...but that depends on what your operating limitations say. I switched from FP to C/S prop in 2005. My operating limitations (dated June 2000) did not allow me to do what James described as the verbage allowing this was not included.
I contacted the local FSDO and their response was to issue me new operating limitations. The new limitations had the verbage to allow me to remove my fixed pitch prop, install the constant speed prop then put the plane back into Phase I for at least 5 hours flight testing (all done with complete annotations in the log books).
All FSDO contact was done via phone and snail-mail as I had to send in a copy of the limitations issued to me
I **should** have mentioned that "in theory, consistent with your documented operating limitations ...".
James
Read your operating limitations closely.
Even with the latest operating limitations, you must "notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircrat owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA registry."
For a short time (around 2002), operating imitations were issued without this requirement.
Even with the latest operating limitations, you must "notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area. The aircrat owner must obtain concurrence from the FSDO as to the suitability of the proposed test area. If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the aircraft owner must fill out a revised form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA registry."
For a short time (around 2002), operating imitations were issued without this requirement.
Last edited:
Rosie
Well Known Member
Mel, my (new) limitations dated February 2005 do not have any of the above wording in them.
My original limitations, issued by the Van Nuys FSDO in June 2000 had roughly 10-15 'General Limitations', another 10-15 for 'Phase I' and exactly 2 limitations for 'Phase II'. They read something like "1.) All General limitations apply and 2). Experimental indicator & FAA passenger warning placards must be visible to the passenger."
Operating Limitations, unfortunately, vary state to state, FSDO to FSDO, inspector to inspector...
Rosie
Yes Paul,
Unfortunately they do. However, they are NOT supposed to. FAA Order 8130.2F states EXACTLY how they will be issued. Unfortunately some FAA guys don't keep up with the rules.
Regardless of what is supposed to be, the operating limitations issued for a particular aircraft are "binding" for that aircraft.
Unfortunately they do. However, they are NOT supposed to. FAA Order 8130.2F states EXACTLY how they will be issued. Unfortunately some FAA guys don't keep up with the rules.
Regardless of what is supposed to be, the operating limitations issued for a particular aircraft are "binding" for that aircraft.
