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First Crisis

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flyboy96

Member
So I completed my Horizontal Stab last night, however while I was riveting the skins I put several dings in them with my flush set. Is this a comon mistake for a first timer or should I junk it all and start over? I don't want to start this project with lowering my standards. Is body filler an option for these oopsies.

Ted
 
Practice makes p...

quote=tomcostanza;161981]Get a swivel flush set, if you don't have one already. It makes the shooter's job much easier.
http://www.averytools.com/pc-31-91-flush-swivel-rivet-set.aspx
Clear skies,[/quote]

This is great advice. The quality of our riveting increased a lot when we started to use this device. Also, make sure your riveting gun compressor pressure is set around 50-60lbs. Too high and you will have lots of dents. The smaller the rivet, the less pressure you need. Excess pressure equals dents.

Practice on scrap. If I were to try to put it into words, the riveting gun maintains the pressure whilst the buck compresses the rivet. Assuming the rivet gun is in your left hand, maintain enough pressure so the rivet remains in place. The gun must be at a right angle with the material. Via the buck, which is in your right hand, add pressure once the rivet gun starts to pound the rivet.

Remember, before you apply any form of HIGH QUALITY bondo, acid etch the alum and scuff the alum so the bondo adheres. Applied to raw alum, the bondo will not properly adhere and then you will have other problems.

This website has lots of examples.

Barry
 
I think my gun is set at around 100 psi so thats probably part of my problem. I'm having a hard time with keaping my gun flush while watching my bar at the same time, a swivel is probably the answer. Or another set of hands, when I did have help I didn't screw up once. But dang is she hard to work with.

Ted
 
Be square with a good regulator

flyboy96 said:
I think my gun is set at around 100 psi so thats probably part of my problem. I'm having a hard time with keaping my gun flush while watching my bar at the same time, a swivel is probably the answer. Or another set of hands, when I did have help I didn't screw up once. But dang is she hard to work with.
Ted
Click to expand...

Ted: Irrespective of which head you use, you MUST keep the gun flush and square with the rivet. Also remember that air pressure may build up in the line in excess of 50lbs every time you stop riveting. When you first squeeze the trigger, you may still get 100lbs. Ease the trigger initially, to let the pressure drop to the regulated level, and then increase the trigger squeeze. Or, buy a good regulator and install it right before the gun. There are $10 regulators and $30 regs. The $30 unit will maintain the desired pressure even if the compressor pressure varies from 90 to 100 or 150. Do not buy the reg from Harbor Freight.

The buck person initially rests the buck against the rivet. As the banging begins, the bucker increases pressure so the rivet collapses. The buck must be flush too. Buy a pair of cheap headsets so your ears survive. Buckers sometimes get frustrated and their hand loses control of the buck. With headsets, that scenario seems to lessen.

Barry
 
flyboy96 said:
I think my gun is set at around 100 psi so thats probably part of my problem. I'm having a hard time with keaping my gun flush while watching my bar at the same time, a swivel is probably the answer. Or another set of hands, when I did have help I didn't screw up once. But dang is she hard to work with.

Ted
Click to expand...
You should need no more than 35-40# of pressure with an 3/32 rivet and no more than 55-60# for an 1/8 rivet, unless it is very long one, and even then probably no more than 65# max. If you haven't worked with these tools before, I'd highly recommend a one-day or weekend build class. Money and time well spent. Hope this helps. Have fun.
 
flyboy96 said:
I think my gun is set at around 100 psi so thats probably part of my problem. I'm having a hard time with keaping my gun flush while watching my bar at the same time, a swivel is probably the answer. Or another set of hands, when I did have help I didn't screw up once. But dang is she hard to work with.

Ted
Click to expand...

Learn to "feel" the bucking bar. You need to be looking at the gun and insuring it is square. You square up the bucking bar by feel, ie, using the sides and/or tips of your fingers to feel where the bar is at relative to the work.
Make sure your work is well clamped and that you are in a "solid" position and your "gun" elbow is locked into your body and not flailing around.
Sorry but it is much easier to show someone in person.
 
flyboy96 said:
I think my gun is set at around 100 psi so thats probably part of my problem. I'm having a hard time with keaping my gun flush while watching my bar at the same time, a swivel is probably the answer. Or another set of hands, when I did have help I didn't screw up once.
Click to expand...
Try the Suggested Operating Pressures at the bottom of this page: http://rvproject.com/rivets.html It's a good starting point.

The swivel flush set was probably the single biggest improvement in quality that a tool purchase made for us! I never was really impressed with the standard flush set, thinking our riveting just wasn't as good as it could be. Our first tech counselor visit resulted in a suggestion to get a swivel set as we were told we were doing about as good as possible with a standard set. Man what a difference it makes! We no longer feel the need to backrivet anything and everything.
 
Riveting

Ted..

Air pressure at 100 pounds for 3/32" rivets would make most riveters screw up. I would install an inline valve on the rivet gun as mentioned and then practice driving rivets with the least amount of air pressure needed to do the job. 30# to 40# is plenty and start with a very light trigger pull increasing as the rivet shop head begins to form. You should be able to hear each tap as an individual blow and about four taps to set the rivet completely. Don't start over since you can patch with body putty as mentioned. Besides, you did get some rivets just fine and the learning curve is steep as you develop feel. You may want to look up some local builders for a couple hour hands on session. I feel I can (and did) teach guys to rivet in a couple hours with some scrap aluminum. Keep at it and you will do just fine.

Dick DeCramer
N500DD flying
RV8 in progress (Tanks)
Northfield, MN
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
You should need no more than 35-40# of pressure with an 3/32 rivet and no more than 55-60# for an 1/8 rivet, unless it is very long one, and even then probably no more than 65# max. If you haven't worked with these tools before, I'd highly recommend a one-day or weekend build class. Money and time well spent. Hope this helps. Have fun.
Click to expand...

Same thing happened to me when I started. I agree with this. Lowering the air pressure will make you think you just finished that build class. It makes things much much easier. I plumbed a Y on my table with a small regulator on one end with low pressure for the rivet gun and the other end had full pressure for drilling. Fill those small dents with Evercoat Rage Gold, sand smooth and move on. It will be fine and look fine.

-Jeff
 
It makes me feel better knowing I'm not the first and getting some answers on how to correct my problem. I think if I get my PSI right it should be much easier. On a brighter note I did manage to set the last 75% of my rivets fine evin with the high pressure so if I get my gun working right I should be smokin.:cool:
 
Been there, done that

I remember not so long ago putting a small dent in mine as well.

Good advice on the gun pressure settings. I started using a rubber trimmed mushroom head and really like it. Still must keep the head square to the rivet and work.

If your not too far along I have had some success in using a sheet metal hammer and a smooth dolley (bucking bar) to the remove the little dent by hammering very gently. This usually requires the removal of a few rivets to get at the dent.

After a while you will likely forget the location of this dent and if someone points to it you can tell them the story and show them how much improved you were on the remainder of the project.

Happy building
 
Me, too

I managed to get passed the Emp without dinging anything, no edge problems either. I thought man I'm good. Turns out I've just been lucky. Today while waiting for the UPS guy to deliver my LED Nav lights from CreativAir. I was distracted, when the dog(under my feet) barked at his arrival, I pulled the trigger when I wasn't ready. Nice Big Nasty Ding, my first.

RV7189.jpg


I'm sure there will be more, but at least this one was on the Seatback skins. :eek:
 
You should need no more than 35-40# of pressure with an 3/32 rivet and no more than 55-60# for an 1/8 rivet
Click to expand...

Ditto that. You'll find you will need to be on the high side if you have a large mass of metal that the rivet is sitting in (like a longeron or spar), and on the low side if you're doing something like riveting a rib to a skin. I find that I'm usually between 30 and 35# for AD3 rivets, and I hammer them for about 1 second.

Best,
 
I turned my gun down and riveted most of my vert stab last night, made me look like a pro it did. I don't know what it's set at because the small valve that came with my tool kit doesn't have a guage on it. I turned it right down and then started cranking it up, ending up with just enough jam to set the -3s. I can't believe how much better it works. Thanks guys.

Ted
 
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