RV-9A vs Glastar....anyone with time on both?

Yeah, it's winter, WOXOF, so when not flying we tend to ruminate on these kind of things. An ad for a local aircraft for sale had me wondering.....
There are a LOT of varying performance numbers for the Glastar, not to mention the sibling OMF Symphony ( certified) which is a few hundred pounds heavier.

some days I wish I had more headroom, and space for my 'plus' size friends and their gear, but I'd sure miss the speed and climb of the -9.

slightly different mission to be sure, but can anyone verify that the Glastar with a 160 hp can really get in and out of grass airparks at gross? I've flown in 2 when I was looking to buy, but ended up with the -9a for the great skyward visibility...raised on low wings I guess.

appreciate any input, ( or just wild armchair speculation!)

Both

Hi, I have flown both, both of which were nose wheel types. I have flown 160 constant speed Glastars, and a 180 FP one too.

The 160 was owned by someone with 400 yard grass strip and operated from there for many years. They perform very well and of course have loads of space and luggage capacity.

The 180hp was operated by a friend off a 600 m grass strip again with no problems.

They have a similar feel in the controls but heavier more solid feeling.

I believe that Stan Markwell has owned both of these models. Not sure if he is on VAF, but he comes up with a google search.

A Glastar with 180hp and constant speed prop will get off the ground in a big hurry. The factory demo Sportsman with 180HP and C/S got off the ground at gross in 400 feet. Pretty respectable.

Expect high-speed (75%) cruise at 140kts and economy cruise (65%) at around 134kts on standard trike gear with wheel pants when equipped with 180hp and C/S prop.

One "big thing" that's come to the Glastar world is an aftermarket mod kit to install the large Sportsman cargo door. If I were to own a Glastar, this door mod would be a "must have". I love that big cargo door. In our airplane I can get 8 foot building material inside without any modifications to the aircraft.

Now for full disclosure. I'm building a Sportsman so I have a rather heavy bias. I have more time in a 9A than in a Glastar or Sportsman. The Sportsman fits our mission better than the 9A would. I'd be tickled pink to be able to have an airplane with the utility of the Sportsman and the economy of the 9A!

I have flown many of both airframes.

Glastars on wheels and on floats. 150hp fixed pitch to 180hp constant speed. Even one with a Subaru engine (ugh).

RV-6, RV-7, RV7-A, RV-8 RV-8A, RV-9, RV-9A. Also 150hp fixed pitch to 180hp constant speed.

The question on the comparison, however, can't easily be answered objectively as it is a classic "apples & oranges" scenario.

Glastars are definitely great airplanes. If a Glastar fits your mission, you can't go wrong.

That said, my personal mission is to go kinda fast, economically, with the ability to fly exhilarating sport aerobatics, and feel like the airplane is part of me. Since I can't fit a model airplane in the back of an RV-8 and still carry a passenger, my RV-7 fits my mission.

The negative...my face ALWAYS in pain from the constant grin.

Bob

Compare

This is good info as I have not flown in a sportsman. I should have my sportsman completed this summer. 210 hp. 390, 80 inch MT prop. Garmin touch screen, I hope it will be fun. I will NOT be selling our 8! Ron

Canadian_JOY said:

One "big thing" that's come to the Glastar world is an aftermarket mod kit to install the large Sportsman cargo door. If I were to own a Glastar, this door mod would be a "must have". I love that big cargo door. In our airplane I can get 8 foot building material inside without any modifications to the aircraft.

Click to expand...

I understand that those big doors may be in limited supply with only a few left. The last time I looked they weren't planning on making more.

On the other hand the Glastar is a great plane and good buy. I haven't flown but have drooled for years. Come to think of it, I haven't flown an RV yet either, but I'm building!

Bob

is this all that unusual???? build before flying????

drifting my own thread

so you guys are building a sportsman, or RV-12, but have never flown in one?

I guess I've been lucky, and must thank Jeff Liott and Peter Cattoni for my Glastar rides ( Jeff's with a beautiful running sube) and Rob Kennett for my first RV-6 ride!...which convinced me a rookie should get a -9!

This just reinforces the fact that the RV community probably gives a LOT of 'demo' flights, whether we know it or not.....no doubt part of the reason they are so popular!

I started a 9, but over time with delays and life being what it was, I switched to the 12 due the LSA advantages. I actually sat in a stationary 12...

Bob

flyboy1963 said:

drifting my own thread

so you guys are building a sportsman, or RV-12, but have never flown in one?

I guess I've been lucky, and must thank Jeff Liott and Peter Cattoni for my Glastar rides ( Jeff's with a beautiful running sube) and Rob Kennett for my first RV-6 ride!...which convinced me a rookie should get a -9!

Click to expand...

Perry - I sat in the Glasair demo Sportsman on tundra tires while at Oshkosh a few years ago. After that encounter I was thinking I would really like a Sportsman, but realized I had something more like a Glastar budget. Then our neighbor, who, unbeknownst to me was building a Sportsman at a local airport, passed away after a brief battle with cancer. Through several twists of fate his Sportsman project became our Sportsman project. Every time I go to the hangar I look at that airplane in awe. Partly because it's an incredible airplane, and partly because it's one I thought would never be within our reach.

I'm glad that Jeff and Peter gave you rides - you've been fortunate to experience two very nice Glastars. A couple from Toronto who have a beautiful Glastar travelled up to visit us and to give both my wife and I a ride in their airplane. My wife had quite the grin when she came back from that flight! Prior to that flight I thought I'd lost her to my hangar-mate's RV8A. Had it not been for the look of shock when she saw the size of the 8's relatively tiny baggage areas i think I would be building an 8 now instead of a Sportsman.

(To all who would flame me for describing the 8's baggage areas as "relatively tiny", please try to place an 8 foot long 2x4 in an RV8, then come back and tell me how it went. We can place 8 foot long building material in our Sportsman without any modifications. THAT's the kind of baggage area the RV8 is being compared to! )

Building a Sportsman without even flying in one.

Yes, I am.

I sat in the Sportsman the first year it was on display at OSH and thought, man, this is it! Till I saw the price of the kits. Totally out of my budget at the time.

Long story short, I was in the right place at the right time and bought a Sportsman's project from the original builder at a very fair price with a lot of work having been completed.

It wasn't till after I bought it that I got some dual in a Glastar, and just recently a little dual in a Sportsman with the 390. Both very nice planes with very similar handling.

Never been in an RV, except for trying the 14 on for size at OSH last summer. Impressive!

Haulin

It is nice to be able to haul stuff besides dead animals out of short strips. I put an IO360 in the back seat area once and hauled some wing control surfaces another time. I wished that Van's would put their engineering and kit knowledge into making a utility airplane so I can sell my Maule. Nothing against Glasair, as I am a very partial and loyal Van's customer just iching to give them some more money for an experimental hauler.

Canadian_JOY said:

(To all who would flame me for describing the 8's baggage areas as "relatively tiny", please try to place an 8 foot long 2x4 in an RV8, then come back and tell me how it went. We can place 8 foot long building material in our Sportsman without any modifications. THAT's the kind of baggage area the RV8 is being compared to! )

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grubbat said:

... I wished that Van's would put their engineering and kit knowledge into making a utility airplane so I can sell my Maule. Nothing against Glasair, as I am a very partial and loyal Van's customer just iching to give them some more money for an experimental hauler.

Click to expand...

Every time I look at that wonderful -9 wing and those follower flaps, I think the same thing!

Even if it is not dedicated bush plane, it would be nice to have a 2+2 sort of bush plane!

I'm with you Bill.....

....I think most of the elements are there, to graft together a nice bush plane!
Todd Bartrim in Prince George showed transport Canada that the -9 wing would lift 2200 lbs. in order to register his ship with a higher gross weight...he has a rotary engine, and looooong range tanks, necessitating the upped gross.

http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

I'm with you Bill.....

oops, repost

The Dilemma....

Perry,
I offer a third option to the 9A/Sportsman choice, the Bearhawk Patrol. I'm a 3 time RV builder having bought my RV4 tail kit in 88' sight unseen after seeing a Vans ad in Kitplanes in our F16 Intel vault. I owned a 65hp TCraft and the RV4 sounded like a 180mph Super Cub. I had flown Scouts, Super Cubs, Maules and Cessna 180"s in a previous life and wanted a lot out of my sport plane. 10 years and 1000 RV4 hours later, I still missed what my RV4 wasn't, a bush plane.

As fate would have it, a neighbor built a 330HP Bearhawk, sold it and let me deliver it to from FL to MT. Wow, fast, powerful, roomy, STOL machine. Later I would do a prebuy on a Patrol, again a great airplane and far superior to the RV or Sportsman (which I have also flown) in room, cost and capabilities. The patrol will realistically cruise at 125 KTAS at 10K with 24" AK bush wheels and an 0320 out front and land on a gravel bar at the other end. It is also stressed for light acro and does so nicely. Having been blessed to fly many cool airplanes in my life, the Patrol is one of the best personal airplanes out there.

Take a look....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u0r1LGEQaGs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nWTrwqFDWPk
Gravel bar landing...

V/R
Smokey


PS:
When I finally test flew my RV4 in 95' it was from my friends 1200' one way strip. The first flight showed all my work had paid off. After getting airborne in less than a third of the strip I climbed briskly to 10,000 ft, accelerated to 150KTAS and did some light aerobatics then a stall series. Returning to my home strip I approached at 60KIAS and landed easily in half the strip with braking. Impressive machine that RV4! Over the next 10 years I would traverse the ID backcountry, Dirt strips in AZ and Mexico and every conceivable turf surface in the SE USA. GREAT airplane...

flyboy1963 said:

Yeah, it's winter, WOXOF, so when not flying we tend to ruminate on these kind of things. An ad for a local aircraft for sale had me wondering.....
There are a LOT of varying performance numbers for the Glastar, not to mention the sibling OMF Symphony ( certified) which is a few hundred pounds heavier.

some days I wish I had more headroom, and space for my 'plus' size friends and their gear, but I'd sure miss the speed and climb of the -9.

slightly different mission to be sure, but can anyone verify that the Glastar with a 160 hp can really get in and out of grass airparks at gross? I've flown in 2 when I was looking to buy, but ended up with the -9a for the great skyward visibility...raised on low wings I guess.

appreciate any input, ( or just wild armchair speculation!)

Click to expand...

the evolution of the 'cub'!

Some great pireps and advice, thanks Smokey!
I had steered away from the tube & rag craft, after seeing what weather did to our ply & fabric Jodel outdoors.
...but the smarter ones like Bearhawk are skinning the wings, and with a good set of covers, might just make the grade!
..now to find someone selling one for $65,000........hmmmmmmm.

The Patrol looks good, and I really like the LSA, now only if it was side by side...and tip up of course...

Bob

Bush planes my brother....

bhassel said:

The Patrol looks good, and I really like the LSA, now only if it was side by side...and tip up of course...

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob,
RV's have their place in Sport Aviation, a very successful one. Having built 3 of them I can relate. However comma, The Bearhawk, 4 Place or the Patrol aren't RV's or ever intended to be.
Having flown both the Patrol and the 4 Place they are great airplanes for this type of flying, something I truly enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2KjSQSChLE

V/R
Smokey
www.iamanet.org
Not many Super Cubs with tip ups or SBS...