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  #21  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:35 PM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I simply remove the "cage" and freehand the countersink going very slowly.
I took a hand countersink and did the 2 #40 holes near the flange. These rivets hold the nut plates and that's all they need to do. Probably not the most critical attachment I'll be making on this plane.

I think I'll buy another 1 or 2 countersink cages and set them up for various sizes. PITA to keep changing the adjustment.
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  #22  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:06 PM
jpflys1 jpflys1 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Chicago C77
Posts: 32
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Thread creep,
I highly recommend the Milwaukee M12 cordless pop riveter.
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  #23  
Old 03-19-2019, 10:11 PM
brucehatch brucehatch is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: American Fork, Utah 84003
Posts: 8
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I'm new to the forum and am making preparations to start a 12iS build, so this thread is of special interest. I've looked at the Milwaukee M12 cordless riveter at my local Home Depot. It looks to be a high quality tool. Would I still need a hand rivet puller and/or a pneumatic riveter if I make the investment in the Milwaukee tool?
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Ordered empennage kit
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2019, 06:01 AM
Bob Y Bob Y is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Piedmont, SC
Posts: 75
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There were several tight areas where I needed a hand riveter with a rotating head to get into some tight spaces. I used the Harbor Freight model and it works well. Also, when building the fuel tank the instructions recommended a hand riveter to more slowly pull the rivets coated with fuel tank sealant to get a better seal. And due to the mess of the tank sealant, you probably donít want to get all that sealant on your Milwaukee riveter. Just my experiences.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2019, 08:18 PM
brucehatch brucehatch is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: American Fork, Utah 84003
Posts: 8
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Thank you Bob for the feedback. Milwaukee also others an extension tip for their M12 riveter. Has anyone invested in one of these and would this be worth having for hard to access locations?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwauke...0100/305028722
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Ordered empennage kit
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Dues paid thru 2019
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2019, 09:49 PM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Y View Post
There were several tight areas where I needed a hand riveter with a rotating head to get into some tight spaces. I used the Harbor Freight model and it works well. Also, when building the fuel tank the instructions recommended a hand riveter to more slowly pull the rivets coated with fuel tank sealant to get a better seal. And due to the mess of the tank sealant, you probably donít want to get all that sealant on your Milwaukee riveter. Just my experiences.
You may be making too much out of the riveting issue. I'm in the early stages of the emp build, just starting to rivet the skins, but so far all of my fears about riveting and what tool to use have evaporated. I'm not saying that I won't run into some special circumstances down the road but so far all that I've needed is my cheap Arrow hand squeeze model RH200 pop rivet tool and some Advil.

I did buy a hand squeezer for standard rivets and a set of dies for my pneumatic rivet squeezer, had it for at least 30 years and it still works great. I don't know the manufacturer but it has the overlapping letters CP in a circle embossed on the side. This is not a tool to be trifled with.

Good luck with your build. I'll be rooting for you.
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2019, 10:12 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 186
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CP is Chicago Pneumatic.
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  #28  
Old 03-21-2019, 02:39 AM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
CP is Chicago Pneumatic.
Thanks for the info.
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:17 AM
aviti aviti is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ballwin, MO
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuma View Post
You may be making too much out of the riveting issue. I'm in the early stages of the emp build, just starting to rivet the skins, but so far all of my fears about riveting and what tool to use have evaporated. I'm not saying that I won't run into some special circumstances down the road but so far all that I've needed is my cheap Arrow hand squeeze model RH200 pop rivet tool and some Advil.

I did buy a hand squeezer for standard rivets and a set of dies for my pneumatic rivet squeezer, had it for at least 30 years and it still works great. I don't know the manufacturer but it has the overlapping letters CP in a circle embossed on the side. This is not a tool to be trifled with.

Good luck with your build. I'll be rooting for you.

I’m not sure if I read this right but if you meant to say you are going to pull 15000 rivets with a hand puller, you will end up with carpal tunnel.

You definitely need a puller with the rotatable head when you get to the fuselage. You’ll also want a pneumatic puller. The compressor for this need not be huge but once you are running a compressor you might as well get a 30 gallon or so to run all your air tools. I bought a Kobalt 26 gallon super silent at Lowe’s for $300 and it is barely large enough for air drills and die grinders. The key is it is quiet enough to tolerate as it will be running with air tools.

I have a Nova 4000 rpm air drill from Pan American Tools for $120 and several Harbor Freight die grinders for deburring with 1 in, 2 in scotchbrite wheels and the small discs. They are about $15 each. Using these in drills was a pain in the butt. I couldn’t find a cordless drill that didn’t have significant runout in the chuck which ruined several pieces of thin aluminum when match drilling. My $180 Dewalt cordless drill was the worst. These are apparently made for carpenters, not metal working.

I know some guys try to get by super cheap on tools. But what’s another $1000 or so when you are spending $80K+ building an airplane. Make the job easier and more enjoyable for yourself.
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RV-12 ELSA
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ULS Fuse kit in progress

Last edited by aviti : 03-21-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:37 AM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
Posts: 53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviti View Post
Iím not sure if I read this right but if you meant to say you are going to pull 15000 rivets with a hand puller, you will end up with carpal tunnel.

You definitely need a puller with the rotatable head when you get to the fuselage. Youíll also want a pneumatic puller. The compressor for this need not be huge but once you are running a compressor you might as well get a 30 gallon or so to run all your air tools. I bought a Kobalt 26 gallon super silent at Loweís for $300 and it is barely large enough for air drills and die grinders. The key is it is quiet enough to tolerate as it will be running with air tools.

I have a Nova 4000 rpm air drill from Pan American Tools for $120 and several Harbor Freight die grinders for deburring with 1 in, 2 in scotchbrite wheels and the small discs. They are about $15 each. Using these in drills was a pain in the butt. I couldnít find a cordless drill that didnít have significant runout in the chuck which ruined several pieces of thin aluminum when match drilling. My $180 Dewalt cordless drill was the worst. These are apparently made for carpenters, not metal working.

I know some guys try to get by super cheap on tools. But whatís another $1000 or so when you are spending $80K+ building an airplane. Make the job easier and more enjoyable for yourself.
I'll definitely buy a pneumatic puller when it comes time to do the wings and fuselage, I was talking about getting started with the empennage.

I have a 21 gallon compressor and all the usual air tools but I prefer using my cordless drills. I have not experienced the run-out issue you mentioned but I'll keep an eye out for it.
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