VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12/RV-12iS
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-13-2019, 07:36 PM
joe gremlin joe gremlin is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 109
Default RV12 Project - Cost To Complete

I took a peek at Craigslist and found an RV12 project for sale near me. Looks like the tail, wings and fuselage are complete or nearly so and it includes a low time rotax. The asking price is $20k. The ad doesn't have much info beyond that. No idea what model rotax, I assume a 912 of some sort but that's an assumption.

It'll need a finish kit, avionics, firewall forward less engine and paint or some kind of vinyl wrap to get it flying. What's a good guess for dirt cheap cost on all that?

A -9 is what I really want to build, but I'm wondering if getting a -12 built, flying and sold would be good practice before starting a -9 from scratch. Obviously I wouldn't want to do that unless I stood a reasonable chance of selling it for what I had in it if not a bit more.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:04 PM
rk2436 rk2436 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: chicago,ol
Posts: 44
Default

One thought is you will have to register it as an EAB instead of ELSA.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:23 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,491
Default Um...

"...What's a good guess for dirt cheap cost on all that?..."

No such thing...this is aviation!
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues Paid 2018,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:36 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 747
Default

One skill you probably won’t learn building a 12 that is absolutely critical to building a 9 is how to use a rivet gun. The 12 was designed to be built without using a rivet gun although I've used mine in a few places. I could have completed the tasks with a squeezer instead of the gun, but since I had the gun handy, I decided to use it.
__________________
Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold

VAF donation made for 2019
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:47 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 129
Default

Unless you buy a Rotax 912 ULS with Firewall Forward Kit from Van's, your plane will have to be registered EAB, which means you can't do the annuals or 100 hr services, must be performed by an A/P which you get to then pay $$$$. If you buy the motor from Van's, then you've built it just like a SLSA that they sell fully finished, it's just Experimental, and classifies with FAA as a E-LSA aircraft. Probably affects your insurance rates, too.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-13-2019, 08:54 PM
joe gremlin joe gremlin is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv9builder View Post
One skill you probably wonít learn building a 12 that is absolutely critical to building a 9 is how to use a rivet gun. The 12 was designed to be built without using a rivet gun
Regardless of design, it appears that the bulk of the riveting is already done. For sure there will be lots of skills to learn including the basics of riveting. But I wouldn't expect to come away with any kind of advanced riveting degree under my belt.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:48 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
Posts: 2,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post
Unless you buy a Rotax 912 ULS with Firewall Forward Kit from Van's, your plane will have to be registered EAB, which means you can't do the annuals or 100 hr services, must be performed by an A/P which you get to then pay $$$$. If you buy the motor from Van's, then you've built it just like a SLSA that they sell fully finished, it's just Experimental, and classifies with FAA as a E-LSA aircraft. Probably affects your insurance rates, too.
Ummmmmmmmm... yes, and no.

If you use parts (like an engine, for example) that don't come from Van's, or if you deviate from the plans in any way, you'll have to register it as E-AB rather than E-LSA.

If you build it E-AB, as with E-LSA, you are certainly allowed do all of your own maintenance, repairs and modifications to your heart's content. So is anyone else, regardless of their certificate or lack thereof. You can also obtain the repairman certificate for that airplane, and perform your own condition inspections as well.

One difference between the two is that if you build it as an E-AB and subsequently sell the plane, the next owner will have to get an A&P to do the condition inspections. If you sell an E-LSA, the next owner can take the 16 hour class and get a repairman certificate for that airplane, which will allow him or her to perform the condition inspection.
__________________
Dale

Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-14-2019, 05:56 AM
joe gremlin joe gremlin is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 109
Default

So to clarify, even if the engine he has is a 912 ULS, if it didn't come from Vans the plane can't be registered as E-LSA, is that correct?

Assuming that's the case should I also assume the resale on an EAB RV12 is going to be less than the resale on an E-LSA RV12? If so, then I'd suspect $20k is bit too much to pay for a project you plan to sell as soon you get it flying.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:32 AM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 405
Default

Lot of assumptions made here... my advice ...is that if you want to build a -9, then just do that. It’s a lot of work to build an airplane, even and RV12, and if you’re goal is learn building, Van’s did a good job of having you learn on the empennage first at a lower price, and then go on to build the rest of the kit. Even if you totally screw up the empennage, you could scrap it and start over building a completely new one having more practical skills for building a solid rivet aircraft with likely less investment of time and money overall than building a complete -12 first.

Also, I recurringly hear the insurance line about E-LSA will be less than E-AB. I’ve not owned an E-LSA, but my annual premium on my E-AB hull with $90K value was $610 with no deductible; feel free to measure your cost against that. The major factor on premiums is the pilot, not the airplane...so saith my insurance broker.
__________________
Ron Gawer

- RV10, N1530G (reserved). Build in progress.
- RV12, N975G, "The Commuter"
- Several others that are now just great memories for me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:46 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
Posts: 2,805
Default

You can NOT register that RV-12 as E-LSA unless Van's Aircraft gives you form 8130-15. Van's will ask you to sign this statement:
_
"To receive the documentation required to license and fly an E-LSA aircraft, including FAA form 8130-15 Light Sport Aircraft Statement of Compliance, the following statement must be true and signed:
I certify that I have received a complete RV-12 E-LSA kit from Vanís Aircraft, Inc. No components have been deleted, returned or altered. The aircraft will be assembled in accordance with Vanís building instructions.
"
They will likely verify that statement is true based on their records. It is best to check with Van's before purchasing that RV-12.
_
If you intend to register as E-AB, you must prove that the aircraft was 51 percent built by an amateur. Can you do that? It is best to check with your local DAR before purchasing that RV-12.
_
Even though much of the work has already been done, you could still obtain the repairman certificate if registered E-AB. Ask your local FAA.
__________________
Joe Gores
RV-12 Flying
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:17 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.