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  #1  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:38 PM
Jimbo54 Jimbo54 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Eugene
Posts: 12
Default Gas, Cans, & Bonding

Newer member here. If this is already clearly covered in another thread, I apologize. I've been reading so many conflicting and unclear posts, blogs, and articles my head is spinning.
1. Originally, I thought in a Rotax 912 ULS I was going to have to run "Clear" - non-ethanol, high octane gas. After reading many things, including info right from Rotax, I now believe I can safely use AKI 91 w/ 10% ethanol. Is this correct?
2. Again, from reading many conflicting articles/postings, I am confused about the proper container to use in humping fuel to the airport: plastic vs. metal. I've read that the action of pouring gas through plastic creates static buildup that can jump to the fuel/air mixture when entering the plane. I've read that metal is safest and yet most pictures/videos/and even ads have plastic jugs being used.
3. Bonding: I cannot find any picture or video of someone demonstrating bonding their portable gas can to the plane. My CFI doesn't bother; he just pours directly from the plastic 5 gallon container into the plane.
4. Do most RV-12 owners recommend using Mr. Funnel, and if so, which model.
Thanks in advance! Jim
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:53 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,342
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Jim,

Iíve heard accounts of static buildup on plastic cans too, but Iíve never encountered it in 6 1/2 years of fueling from ungrounded plastic cans. I do put a finger on some bare metal part of the airframe while holding the can before I pour in any fuel, but Iíve never felt any discharge. Out here in the dry Arizona desert I think I would have seen something if it was an issue. Maybe someday Iíll find out different the hard way, but in well over 500 fueling evolutions with the plastic cans (most involving at least two cans) Iíve had no static problems.

My can nozzles have a coarse filter in them. So far no gascolator debris at 6 annuals.

Iíd gladly use a grounded gas pump if my FBO offered autogas, but in absence of that Iíll continue as I have been.

Rich
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2018, 09:15 PM
sf3543 sf3543 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 921
Default

In response to:
1. 10% ethanol is fine and ultimately preferable to 100LL, although it too can be used albeit with some shortened maintenance intervals. I think I remember reading that Rotax says 15% ethanol is ok, but Iíd have to look that one up to be sure.
2. Iím sure either is fine since they are both approved for fuel. I uae plastic 5 gal cans myself.
3. I donít use any bonding when I pour the gas into the plane; however, I do make sure to take the jugs out of the truck and set them on the ground to fuel them up. Some newer trucks have a warning label inside the bed telling you to do that.
4. My jugs have a coarse screen inside the funnel. I donít use any other filtering than that and havenít had any issues
Just my experiences.....
Good luck
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RV6, RV8 (2), RV12 & RV3 99% done.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2018, 09:26 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 1,107
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Same here... pour from Briggs & Stratton 5 gallon plastic directly into tank neck with no funnel. Poring spout on can has a course screen. 400TT using 93E10 and nothing ever found in gascolator bowl during disassembly for inspection. I have found debris when draining sump before daily flight - but very rare instance. The design of the gascolator bowl is self cleaning when sumped. The fine screen in the gascolator has never allowed any debris into the carburetor float bowls.
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC Jul 2012 - Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 406

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks to EJ Trucks
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2018, 09:37 PM
DHeal DHeal is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, California
Posts: 730
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Some info for your consideration:

https://cafe.foundation/v2/pdf_cafe_...g%20Safety.pdf

Also, I have found the Mr. Funnel fuel funnel to be difficult to use due to the angle of the RV-12's fuel filler port -- it is also very slow flowing. In 680 hours of using primarily Auto 91+10% ethanol (Yuck!), I have yet to find any evidence of fuel contamination. YMMV.
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EAA #23982 - EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor; CFI - A&I
RV-12 E-LSA #120496 (SV w/ AP and ADS-B) - N124DH flying since March 2014 - 690+ hours (as of Oct 2018)!
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Last edited by DHeal : 10-23-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2018, 09:42 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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Above link doesn't work...
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC Jul 2012 - Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 406

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks to EJ Trucks
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2018, 10:05 PM
Mark Albery's Avatar
Mark Albery Mark Albery is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fremont CA
Posts: 648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
Above link doesn't work...
The software strips out the %20 characters from the file name Fuel%20Handling%20Safety.pdf

Try using the right button to copy the URL and then paste in a fresh window.

I've looked into this in the past. There isn't really a way to discharge static in a plastic can as the charge builds up on the surface of the liquid. But they seem to be used everyday on boats, bikes, lawnmowers etc without much problem.

Have an extinguisher or fire blanket close to hand seems like a good idea.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2018, 10:19 PM
DHeal DHeal is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, California
Posts: 730
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Try this link:

https://cafe.foundation/v2/main_home.php

or GOOGLE: Cafe Foundation
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David Heal - Windsor, CA (near Santa Rosa)
EAA #23982 - EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor; CFI - A&I
RV-12 E-LSA #120496 (SV w/ AP and ADS-B) - N124DH flying since March 2014 - 690+ hours (as of Oct 2018)!
VAF donation through June 2019.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2018, 09:24 AM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 795
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I don't like lifting the 5 gallon cans up to the tank opening so I got a Flo-Fast pump and one of their 5 gallon cans. The pump has a grounding cable that I attach to the aircraft. I transfer the fuel through a Mr. Funnel into the pump can then use the pump to get it up into the tank. Works well and is pretty easy.
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Port Orange, Fl
RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project
SPA Panther N26TK in progress
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2018, 10:28 AM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 3,820
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The Fokker warbird wannabe is even more awkward to fuel than the RV-12. Here is my fuel transfer rig that uses a 12vdc Carter automotive fuel pump driven with a retired PC680 battery:





This rig works great, flow rate is one gal/min. Just turn it on, step back and let it it pump. The fill nozzle is an aluminum tube which touches the fuel tank to dissipate static charge (photo shows grounding cable which is no longer used). The valve on the intake tube is closed after fueling to retain fuel in the pump so it won't have to prime next time it is used and eliminates messy drain-back.

P.S. My next-door-neighbor has an RV-12 and commandeers my fuel rig....and has retired his crank pump.
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1999 RV-6
1918 Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 10-24-2018 at 10:17 PM.
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