Home > VansAirForceForums

- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Old 10-10-2018, 10:28 AM
JwWright57 JwWright57 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 123
Question Revised LSA standards

For the sake of discussion does the new purposed LSA standard revision really screw the Rv-12? I think most pilots would prefer more speed and capability in an LSA. Does vans recert the Rv-9 as an LSA?
Jeff Wright, Charlotte NC
Rv-12 started!
Tail 99% done
Wings 99% done
12IS fuse kit in progress
Dues paid 2019
Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2018, 11:46 AM
rcarsey rcarsey is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 108

Impossible to say until we know what the speed limit is, max seats, stall etc.

Though I think if the speed limit is increased, you could expect Vans to come up with some design that will match that limit. "total performance" -- maybe that's making a slower RV-9 LSA .. or new wings for the RV-12. Or, if its just a gross weight change, maybe an option to have more fuel.. just too many unknowns.

My guess is that they're already having some office-place chat about this..but won't put any work into it at all until the new rules are final.. thats years off.. plus a couple more for development..

I don't think it screws the -12.. in fact, I think it gives the -12 more options.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2018, 11:53 AM
unitink72 unitink72 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 186
Default Factory visit

I just did the factory tour 2 weeks ago. At the end I asked Eric what they are working on, noting that there was a lot of discussion going on in the VAF forum about the RV-15 being a bush plane.

He gave me a mostly canned response, with one exception of a blurb about them thinking about the new LSA rules that are coming down the pipe.

So you can bet they are watching those developments with a keen eye.
Josh T
RV-10 #1750
N67SC reserved
2018 Dues Paid
Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2018, 12:26 PM
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 594

At Van's we are (of course) watching these developments, and in fact we are participating in the rooms where many of these conversations are taking place. So, our eyes are on the future and direct engagement in the process by the "mother ship" is what's happening already, and has been for some time.

Change is almost certainly coming, but exactly what these changes will eventually end up looking like isn't really something anyone can see with any certainty now (the process through which these changes happen has many steps, and changes to proposed items is part of the process). That said, if in the future we end up with the ability to build and fly great airplanes with fewer complex, expensive regulatory hurdles, while maintaining a high level of performance-proven safety, at a lower cost to owners than many certificated airplanes command today, with regulatory changes that encourage and provide a mechanism for new innovation, and if we get to use our amazing airplanes in even more useful scenarios, I think it's safe to say we'll all win.

It's important to realize, though, that nothing has been decided or set it stone yet. Far from it. Time will tell. Meanwhile, cross your fingers and think happy thoughts. More importantly, participate in the public comment/input portion of the process when it happens. Be an active participant in driving positive changes.
Van's Aircraft - Community, Media, Marketing
Van's web site | Instagram | Facebook
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not represent direction/opinions of my employer.

Building RV-8A since Sept 2014 (N88VX reserved)
Dual AFS 5600, Avidyne IFD 440, Whirlwind 74RV, Superior XPIO-360
VAF build thread - Flickr photo album - Project Facebook page
Hillsboro, OR (EAA 105)

Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 09:18 AM
Paragon Paragon is offline
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 63

This information, while meant to be encouraging, is far from it, IMHO.

Here we have a government agency that has heavily worked on and understood LSA rules for more than a decade. And multiple customer organizations out in the field providing input. And safety data in hand for years.

And yet, no decisions get made and no regulations get changed without an "N" year long process, where N is an integer between 2 and infinity.

Can anybody in FAA leadership make decisions? Do any of them understand the aircraft design field that they are supposed to be regulating?

In private industry an executive suite patting themselves on the back for making decisions they are paid to make, using a plodding 5+ year long process, would be kicked to the curb and rightly so.

If you say, "Well this lengthy collaborative process produces the best results", I remain unconvinced. No matter what regulations pop out at the end, there will always be groups unhappy with the results. In the end the decisions of where the rules stop and start are arbitrary and based on the opinions of hopefully knowledgeable regulators.

Keep the good parts of LSA rules, get rid of the bad.

Keep the current low stall speed, 2 pax, increase the max speed by 20 kt., increase gross Wt. to 2400 lb., invoke a rule to prevent spins via tip cuffs and vortex generators (as is well understood and used on ICON A5 and others). Provide a process to move trainer category aircraft in w/ mods, like C152's, Tomahawks, Skippers, 2 seat Warriors. This would be a reasonable extension of current LSA regs. Voila, a much more useable yet safe Light Sport category.

But mostly, get it done in this century.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2018, 09:57 AM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,471

Iíve always thought a good quick fix would be to eliminate the medical certificate for the recreational pilot certificate. It would essentially extend Sport pilot privileges to private pilots with legacy aircraft (PA28, C172, etc.) that donít want to deal with a medical certificate. The advantage over Basic Med is that it would not require a med certificate from 2016 or later.

Since the RP certificate is not ICAO-recognized the change could be done expeditiously.
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 09:45 AM
Robertc's Avatar
Robertc Robertc is offline
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 51

Perhaps Iím reading it wrong, but it looks to me that the recreational licence hasnít required a physical since January 2017. The way I read the rule my RV7 with a 180hp engine and constant speed prop meets the requirement for recreational aircraft with just a drivers license. ?? Bob
Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 10:15 AM
jnorris's Avatar
jnorris jnorris is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oshkosh
Posts: 168

Originally Posted by Robertc View Post
Perhaps Iím reading it wrong, but it looks to me that the recreational licence hasnít required a physical since January 2017.
According to 14 CFR 61.23, Medical certificates: Requirement and duration (quoted in pertinent part with my highlighting included)...

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificateó
(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, or student pilot certificate, except when operating under the conditions and limitations set forth in ß61.113(i);

ß61.113(i) is the carve-out for BasicMed, which does NOT allow a pilot to fly using only a driver's license as medical certification.

Originally Posted by Robertc View Post
The way I read the rule my RV7 with a 180hp engine and constant speed prop meets the requirement for recreational aircraft with just a drivers license. ??
Unfortunately, no. The only operations that allow using a driver's license alone as medical certification are under Sport Pilot rules. The aircraft you describe does not meet the definition of a light-sport aircraft, so using only your driver's license won't work. You CAN fly that aircraft under BasicMed.

Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2018, 10:42 AM
Robertc's Avatar
Robertc Robertc is offline
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 51

As always, the devil is in the details. Thanks, Bob
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:06 PM.

The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.