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G3X Touch - Loading approaches w/o GNS/GTN

M

maus92

Well Known Member
Rev E of the pilot's guide section 6.6 mentions the ability to load approaches into a flight plan with out an external navigator configured, but I don't seem to be able to do this. This was spurred by an AOPA seminar I attended a few weeks ago that advocated using approaches as a "reference only" when flying VFR at night and wanting to ensure obstacle clearance. I have the mini database subscription, and I suspect this is why I cannot concatenate approach fixes/intersections to my flight plan, but I don't know for sure. Does anyone else have this feature working?
 
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I have been curious about this, but with a 430 I have never tried to figure out how to do it. I may try to figure this out tomorrow, otherwise, I'll be watching to see if someone else knows how to do this.

Jim
 
Loading

The "Select Approach" button on the touch only appears when you have the Nav Data downloaded for the Americas (Jepp Data NOT Jepp Plates!)Spent some time to figure out the terps download doesn't do the full job!

I use this function very frequently, without a GTN/GNS navigator. :)

Edit: The Jepp Data you purchase thru the Garmin site...not the expensive Jepp stuff the site links you to as on option...an expensive boneheaded mistake that was :(
 
Hello,

Yes, Brian and Paul are correct. The U.S. VFR Navigation database included in the U.S. Lite and U.S. Mini database bundles does not include instrument approaches. You must have the Jeppesen navigation database installed to load approaches on the G3X Touch displays. You can, of course, load approaches on your GNS/GTN external IFR navigator and they will show up automatically on the G3X Touch flight plan and maps/charts.

We have a big notice about this which is shown on FlyGarmin every time you download the U.S. VFR Navigation database, but we appreciate that most of us don't read all the notices.

The U.S. VFR Navigation database is a limited database with content provided by AeroNav Products, a division of the FAA. Please note: The content is less comprehensive and varies from Garmin's other navigation databases. For example, this database does NOT contain approach data.​

Almost no one has commented about this (which is surprising given the significance), but if you read our announcement on the new aera 660 portable GPS, there is something interesting related to navigation databases.

The aera 660 is the first Garmin product to use the new Garmin Navigation Database. Unlike the U.S. VFR Navigation database, the Garmin Navigation Database does include approaches, and is offered at the same low cost.

aera 660 US Database Bundle $149.95/yr ($12.50/mo)
Includes the following 7 databases covering Alaska and the Continental U.S., updated as often as you like:
  • Garmin Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies, approaches)
  • Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
  • Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
  • FliteCharts (Geo-referenced IFR approach plates, airport diagrams, arrival and departure procedures)
  • SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
  • Airport Directory (FBOs, runways, hours of operation, rental cars, fuel prices, etc)
  • IFR/VFR Charts (VFR sectionals and IFR Hi/Lo charts)

As mentioned in that posting, the Garmin Navigation Database is also included in the North American database bundle for the aera 660, so it also includes navigation data coverage for Canada.

One can only speculate as to how this might affect G3X Touch (and other Garmin products) in the future.

Thanks,
Steve
 
With a 430 in my installation, it is too easy for me to think the g3x could provide a backup solution for an approach if the 430 was somehow not capable or functioning properly. I can see now how I would miss the warning message since I expect the 430 to provide IFR navigation including approaches. I hope the hint means I may eventually be able to use the g3x in a fail safe mode if my 430 was unable?

And, my initial reaction to the IFR capacity of my g3x was, "why does it have all that potential and capacity but if I didn't have a certified IFR Nav box, who would use it?" It just seems to me like it invites pilots with little IFR training and no instrument rating to push the limit of their ability as well as unproven/unpracticed hardware?

I am NOT trying to stir anything up, I really like what I have, but it sure seems like another way to get the unaware into a situation that may not turn out well.

Please be careful out there...

Jim
 
Jimd said:
With a 430 in my installation, it is too easy for me to think the g3x could provide a backup solution for an approach if the 430 was somehow not capable or functioning properly. I can see now how I would miss the warning message since I expect the 430 to provide IFR navigation including approaches. I hope the hint means I may eventually be able to use the g3x in a fail safe mode if my 430 was unable?

And, my initial reaction to the IFR capacity of my g3x was, "why does it have all that potential and capacity but if I didn't have a certified IFR Nav box, who would use it?" It just seems to me like it invites pilots with little IFR training and no instrument rating to push the limit of their ability as well as unproven/unpracticed hardware?

I am NOT trying to stir anything up, I really like what I have, but it sure seems like another way to get the unaware into a situation that may not turn out well.

Please be careful out there...

Jim
Click to expand...

Typically the non certified Garmin equipment that include approach info do not include the full procedure. Most if not all have this or similar warning in the manual:

"WARNING: The aera is not designed to be independently used for flight
into instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) or other conditions in which
aircraft control is based solely upon flight instruments. The approaches
provided are for monitoring purposes only. Only the final course segment
(final approach fix (FAF) to missed approach point (MAP)) of the published
approach is available for monitoring."

Also keep in mind that you can still purchase the full NAV database for the G3X system, just at a higher cost.

You are correct, there have been people admit on this forum that they have used a non-certified Garmin portable to shoot approaches in real IMC conditions. Not very smart and also does not help our case with the legal council within Garmin!
 
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g3xpert said:
Hello,

Yes, Brian and Paul are correct. The U.S. VFR Navigation database included in the U.S. Lite and U.S. Mini database bundles does not include instrument approaches. You must have the Jeppesen navigation database installed to load approaches on the G3X Touch displays. You can, of course, load approaches on your GNS/GTN external IFR navigator and they will show up automatically on the G3X Touch flight plan and maps/charts.

We have a big notice about this which is shown on FlyGarmin every time you download the U.S. VFR Navigation database, but we appreciate that most of us don't read all the notices.

The U.S. VFR Navigation database is a limited database with content provided by AeroNav Products, a division of the FAA. Please note: The content is less comprehensive and varies from Garmin's other navigation databases. For example, this database does NOT contain approach data.​

Almost no one has commented about this (which is surprising given the significance), but if you read our announcement on the new aera 660 portable GPS, there is something interesting related to navigation databases.

The aera 660 is the first Garmin product to use the new Garmin Navigation Database. Unlike the U.S. VFR Navigation database, the Garmin Navigation Database does include approaches, and is offered at the same low cost.

aera 660 US Database Bundle $149.95/yr ($12.50/mo)
Includes the following 7 databases covering Alaska and the Continental U.S., updated as often as you like:
  • Garmin Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies, approaches)
  • Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
  • Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
  • FliteCharts (Geo-referenced IFR approach plates, airport diagrams, arrival and departure procedures)
  • SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
  • Airport Directory (FBOs, runways, hours of operation, rental cars, fuel prices, etc)
  • IFR/VFR Charts (VFR sectionals and IFR Hi/Lo charts)

As mentioned in that posting, the Garmin Navigation Database is also included in the North American database bundle for the aera 660, so it also includes navigation data coverage for Canada.

One can only speculate as to how this might affect G3X Touch (and other Garmin products) in the future.

Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response - I suspected the mini database would not provide the necessary data because of the notice in the download page. I just needed to verify this because the requirement is not explicitly stated in the pilot's guide.

Moving on. The downloads on FlyGarmin need simplification / better explanation in my view. It's too easy not to buy what you need to enable various functions and capabilities in the G3X suite. A grid might be helpful.

Anyway, which collection of updates need to be purchased to enable loading of approaches? The "Mini" and the "Lite" subscriptions contain "VFR navigation data" so we've established that these don't work. The next level of in terms of aviation bucks outlay is the "Americas Bundle" that contains "NavData" for $279 (vs. $49 and $149.) Then there is The Americas standard PilotPak at an absurd $934 that also contains "NavData." When you dig down to the buy.garmin pages, the NavData appears to be "Jeppesen NavData annual subscription." Is this the proper database to enable approaches, and would either bundle/pak work?

And finally, would I be irrational to purchase one of the bundles/paks now (OK, I'm not buying the pilotpak regardless) since it seems that the "Garmin Navigation Database" will include the approach data at a more reasonable price point than data licensed from Jepp. A timetable would be nice - like maybe Sun 'n Fun next week? I'd hate to be the guy who springs for an annual subscription, and then the cheaper option surfaces a month or two later....
 
I agree with the downloads selection page. Every time I look at it I feel confused. I'm not sure it it is because there is more than one way to do everything, or it may be due to the very similar titles of what is included in a particular set?

Under the navigation data group it says,

The Navigation database contains airport, navaid, waypoint, frequency, airway, airspace, and terminal procedure information.

Does this mean it will have what I need to fly an instrument approach? If not what does it provide and why is it a 28 day cycle?

Some form of flowchart or table or something different to help guide the confused maybe?

Jim
 
maus92 said:
Thanks for your response - I suspected the mini database would not provide the necessary data because of the notice in the download page. I just needed to verify this because the requirement is not explicitly stated in the pilot's guide.

Moving on. The downloads on FlyGarmin need simplification / better explanation in my view. It's too easy not to buy what you need to enable various functions and capabilities in the G3X suite. A grid might be helpful.

Anyway, which collection of updates need to be purchased to enable loading of approaches? The "Mini" and the "Lite" subscriptions contain "VFR navigation data" so we've established that these don't work. The next level of in terms of aviation bucks outlay is the "Americas Bundle" that contains "NavData" for $279 (vs. $49 and $149.) Then there is The Americas standard PilotPak at an absurd $934 that also contains "NavData." When you dig down to the buy.garmin pages, the NavData appears to be "Jeppesen NavData annual subscription." Is this the proper database to enable approaches, and would either bundle/pak work?

And finally, would I be irrational to purchase one of the bundles/paks now (OK, I'm not buying the pilotpak regardless) since it seems that the "Garmin Navigation Database" will include the approach data at a more reasonable price point than data licensed from Jepp. A timetable would be nice - like maybe Sun 'n Fun next week? I'd hate to be the guy who springs for an annual subscription, and then the cheaper option surfaces a month or two later....
Click to expand...

Hi Charley,

Let's set the IFR approach loading discussion aside for just a minute. There are lots of a la carte database choices, but as you have learned, for U.S. customers, there are only two choices for bundles. Most customers pick one or the other depending on their data needs, and almost no one picks a PilotPak.

The easiest place to see all the database choices in a simple, easy-to-understand format is on this page.

US Mini Database Bundle for G3X/G3X Touch Systems $49.99/yr ($4.17/mo)
Includes the following databases, updated as often as you like using an SD card in the display:

  • US VFR Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies)
  • Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
  • Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
  • SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
US Lite Database Bundle for G3X/G3X Touch Systems $149.99/yr ($12.50/mo)
Includes the following 7 databases, updated as often as you like using an SD card in the display:

  • US VFR Navigation Data (airports, runways, frequencies)
  • Obstacles (e.g. towers - used to provide obstacle visual and aural alerting including obstacle depiction in synthetic vision)
  • Terrain (used to render synthetic vision and provide terrain alerting)
  • FliteCharts (Geo-referenced IFR approach plates, airport diagrams, arrival and departure procedures)
  • SafeTaxi (airport diagrams integrated into moving map that are displayed and zoomed automatically when you need them for taxi and landing)
  • Airport Directory (FBOs, runways, hours of operation, rental cars, etc)
  • IFR/VFR Charts (VFR sectionals and IFR Hi/Lo charts, G3X Touch only)
These databases are all you need on your G3X Touch system, but if you want to cross the line into the IFR world, even a little, and be able to load instrument approaches, you have to want it bad, because it will cost extra. As shown on this page, a single Jepp Navigation database update is $60 and an annual subscription is $180. If you choose this, it would have to be purchased separately to any bundle you do or do not purchase.

While we appreciate that the AOPA seminar folks advocated using approaches as a "reference only" when flying VFR, perhaps they didn't mention that it wouldn't come free!

You do have one additional option without installing the Jepp navigation database which is to pull up the FliteCharts instrument approach plate that is already included in the $149 bundle, and select any of the intersections associated with that approach and create your own reference approach as a standard flight plan. You could even save that off as separate flight plan in your flight plan catalog to conveniently load anytime you might want to use it. Since the FliteChart approach plate is geo-referenced, it will even show your progress inbound on this defined path.

We haven't announced that the Garmin Navigation Database will be available for G3X Touch, so there are no dates available, but when/if that happens, you will hear it here first. Sorry we can't share more at this time.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Jimd said:
I agree with the downloads selection page. Every time I look at it I feel confused. I'm not sure it it is because there is more than one way to do everything, or it may be due to the very similar titles of what is included in a particular set?

Under the navigation data group it says,

The Navigation database contains airport, navaid, waypoint, frequency, airway, airspace, and terminal procedure information.

Does this mean it will have what I need to fly an instrument approach? If not what does it provide and why is it a 28 day cycle?

Some form of flowchart or table or something different to help guide the confused maybe?

Jim
Click to expand...

Hello Jim,

Does this mean it will have what I need to fly an instrument approach? If not what does it provide and why is it a 28 day cycle?
Click to expand...
Sorry, but your G3X Touch system should have an IFR navigator to fly an IFR approach. As stated in the manual, loading the final approach leg of a published procedure is a feature made available for monitoring purposes only.

The navigation database allows you to navigate VFR to anywhere covered by your database. The database is updated every month to capture any changes (e.g. frequencies, runways) which occur across the country.

Hopefully the links provided in the previous posting to the FlyGarmin area which shows every database option for each Garmin device will give you a clear picture of what you need to know before attempting to choose/purchase a database or database bundle for your system.

Please let us know if you still have questions.

Thanks,
Steve
 
g3xpert said:
Hello,

Yes, Brian and Paul are correct. The U.S. VFR Navigation database included in the U.S. Lite and U.S. Mini database bundles does not include instrument approaches. You must have the Jeppesen navigation database installed to load approaches on the G3X Touch displays. You can, of course, load approaches on your GNS/GTN external IFR navigator and they will show up automatically on the G3X Touch flight plan and maps/charts.
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm at the point of purchasing my first databases for a G3X+GTN750+GNC255 system, for Europe. I would like Jeppesen georeferenced Approach Plates and NavData for IFR flight, and the best possible (either Jeppesen or Garmin) BaseMap/Terrain/Obstacles, etc... for VFR flight, where "best" means including as many as possible small European airfields.

1) Can the G3X show georeferenced Jeppesen Approach plates and IFR NavData?
2) I know I need to purchase a Jeppesen Chartview Enablement Card for the GTN750. Do I need to buy another (very expensive) Enablement Card also for the G3X (this question is relevant only if answer n.1 is positive)?
3) Are IFR NavData sold by Garmin and Jeppesen identical?
4) I noticed "Basemap" is only present in the Pilotpak offered by Garmin, but not in that offered by Jeppesen: what is BaseMap (how diffrerent is it from NavData) and do I need to update it regularly?
 
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