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Automotive alternator

brian257

Well Known Member
Can anyone recommend a part number for an automotive one wire alternator that can fit on an O-320. I am not real particular on the amperage and will take anything over 30A.
 
I use the Ultra 14870 60 amp (lifetime warranty) unit from the aviation aisle of of O'Riellys. Dan from Reno
 
Can anyone recommend a part number for an automotive one wire alternator that can fit on an O-320...

Just to be clear, do you mean a true "one wire" - an alternator that has only the output wire, or do you mean the more conventional "internally regulated" which has two wires (output and field/turn on)?
 
17,500 with an automotive alternator, but I don't think he was referring to a true altitude issue as much as a joking comment on reliability. I have 900hrs on mine.
 
My comment about operating altitudes came from a conversation with an actual engineer buried in the back- shop of Plane Power.

I recall two points of interest, rpm and brushes. After further research, I my memory has been refreshed and I correct my post. Please forgive, it was offered in good faith.

Posts subsequent to mine, questioning my point, caused me to do more research this morning and I came across a forgotten article, April 93, (updated 2003) by Bob Nuckolls where he explained:

"One of my readers called recently to say he had been verbally keel-hauled by an engineer with an alternator manufacturing company. The reader had confessed to considering a plain vanilla brush for use in the alternator on his RV-4. There's a lot of "hangar mythology" about what constitutes aircraft ratings in components. We all know that much of what is deemed "aircraft" today are the same products certified onto airplanes 30-50 years ago. Many developers and suppliers consider aviation a "dying" market; few are interested in researching and qualifying new products. However, automotive markets continue to advance in every technology.

It is sad to note that many products found on cars today far exceed the capabilities and quality of similar hardware found on certified airplanes. Alternators, motors and components thereof are striking examples!"

I had no reason, at the time I spoke with Plane Power's Tech guy, to question his statement and forgot the above article gathered as part of my "due diligence" back in 2011 or so.

Onward and upward
 
Toolbuilder, I am referring to an internally regulated alternator with the ability to shut the field. I guess it would more correctly be called a two wire alternator, but some people still refer to them as one wire. I just picked up a 10SI alternator, but the diameter is a bit too large. some of the others that people have given links to look like they might be a bit big also, but can't really find dimensions. Auto parts stores are not much help so I might wind up having to go to an alternator shop with somebody that knows more than just make and model of car and tell them I need this mounting style, this max diameter, V belt pulley, etc. If those types of alternator shops still exist...
 
The Gm 10 SI is a big sucker... The little Geo/samuri ND's are small but pack a pretty big punch. They were standard Vans kit fare for years
 
Toolbuilder, I am referring to an internally regulated alternator with the ability to shut the field. I guess it would more correctly be called a two wire alternator, but some people still refer to them as one wire. I just picked up a 10SI alternator, but the diameter is a bit too large. some of the others that people have given links to look like they might be a bit big also, but can't really find dimensions. Auto parts stores are not much help so I might wind up having to go to an alternator shop with somebody that knows more than just make and model of car and tell them I need this mounting style, this max diameter, V belt pulley, etc. If those types of alternator shops still exist...

I've used various 1-wire alts on homebuilts for about 30 years. Obviously, I like them. But...If you think you can use that control terminal to protect against damage to avionics in an overvoltage event, be aware that it's not a reliable technique. All the IR alts I've seen use ground-side regulation. One end of the field is tied to the B lead, and the other to the regulator. So if the power transistor that ties the field to ground shorts out, the control terminal no longer has control. I can send you a procedure someone wrote up showing how to modify the alt to achieve positive control. It does require both soldering and surgical skills. :)

If I can remember, I'll measure one of the 55A alts that I linked earlier, so you'll have an idea about space needed. I can tell you that they fit a 320 in an RV-4 cowl, which is pretty tight.

Charlie
 
Nippon Denso 100211-1680

I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version. I asked Bob Knuckolls about using an automotive unit and he agreed there is some slight risk, but not very much at all. I ran mine as purchased with the internal regulator and never had a problem. YMMV however. I did have a larger pully put on to reduce the RPMs a bit to make it last longer.

I also have the paperwork from Bob Knuckolls on how to rewire the internal regulator for external control and safety. Can't figure out how to post it here, but email me and I'll send you a copy…. n eight zee dee a ya h oo. c
 
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I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version. I asked Bob Knuckolls about using an automotive unit and he agreed there is some slight risk, but not very much at all. I ran mine as purchased with the internal regulator and never had a problem. YMMV however. I did have a larger pully put on to reduce the RPMs a bit to make it last longer.

I also have the paperwork from Bob Knuckolls on how to rewire the internal regulator for external control and safety. Can't figure out how to post it here, but email me and I'll send you a copy…. n eight zee dee a ya h oo. c

http://www.ecae.com/alt1.html

The second one down, this was recommended by Ross a while back. The ultra super mini. You might call the company and see if they have the two wire in a 14 volt model. It is the mini frame size like the plane power experimental 60 amp unit. It appears it is a new from the factory, which means better bearings, balance brushes, and life.

It looks like the 2026 might be the correct two wire, 14v unit. Post your findings, if you pursue this one. I might just call them my self. :)
 
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The one Bill linked is the same frame as the Suzuki model I mentioned earlier. Note that the frame above it, with an external fan, is only slightly larger and works fine, but the external fan is quite adept at sawing a hole in a -4's cowl....

And what I wrote earlier about control applies to that model, too. You can control it with the control terminal, *unless the regulator fails*. If the regulator fails, all bets are off on being able to shut it down with the control terminal. For positive control in the event of regulator failure, you still need to mod it, or use an external contactor to open the B-lead.

Charlie
 
I used this 40 Amp alternator on my RV for 11 years with no problems. Be sure to get the real ND and not a Chinese knock-off version.

Agreed. This is the key to reliability. In my 35 years experience with these units and polling some of my other friends in the automotive repair business with many thousands of customers running cars with OEM Denso IR alternators, they really don't have many overvoltage failures. Brushes wear out and bearings at very high mileage. That's about it.

You often do and will have problems as soon as some rebuild shop removes the OEM Denso parts (especially the regulator) and replaces them with junk off-shore parts. It's not really a ND piece any more at that point.

The ND engineers have invested decades and millions of dollars into perfecting the reliability of their designs and that work has shown to pay off with excellent reliability in the real world with billions of reliable hours collectively. Adding on third party parts to these designs almost certainly will impact that proven reliability record.

OV protection is prudent, especially with lithium batteries but do it externally to the alternator by breaking the battery charging connection.
 
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ND Alternator

I agree with the reliability of the ND and other alternators, but everyone should be aware that they can and will fail. I did not have overvoltage protection external to the ND alternator that Van's supplied with my kit. At about 300 hours, it went overvoltage to 17.5 volts. By the time I got everything shut off and back on the ground, it had murdered my Odyssey battery, but luckily that was it. Whatever alternator you use, be sure you have the overvoltage protection somewhere in the circuit.
 
I agree with the reliability of the ND and other alternators, but everyone should be aware that they can and will fail. I did not have overvoltage protection external to the ND alternator that Van's supplied with my kit. At about 300 hours, it went overvoltage to 17.5 volts. By the time I got everything shut off and back on the ground, it had murdered my Odyssey battery, but luckily that was it. Whatever alternator you use, be sure you have the overvoltage protection somewhere in the circuit.

OEM ND or Plane Power like they show for the RV14 on the Van's site? http://vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/sto...132-612&browse=engines&product=alternator-kit
 
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Air-Tec

Can anyone recommend a part number for an automotive one wire alternator that can fit on an O-320. I am not real particular on the amperage and will take anything over 30A.

Brian,
I've been using Air-Tec starters and Alts on my (2 RV's & Rocket) for 20+ years. Great Alternators, internal reg, strong brackets and gave me 1000+ hours.
They're a FL company (my home state!) and Dick will get it to you overnight if you need it fast. The Air-boat starters (aircraft) are excellent also, he just has to list them as Air-boat for legality...
http://www.airtecinc.us/

V/R
Smokey
 
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