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  #21  
Old 03-29-2018, 01:28 PM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
Outstanding webinar, sometimes these can be so boring at times, I usually watch at 1.5 speed. Not this one, Ron, you did an outstanding job of making the subject clear, understandable and interesting with every comment.

I was surprised the RV14 maneuvering speed is 147kts, way above the others.
That surprised me too! Maybe someone on the forum can tell us why the RV14 maneuvering speed is almost 25 knots faster than that of the rest of the fleet. I would like to know.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2018, 02:23 PM
jimgreen jimgreen is offline
 
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I believe 147kt is for the aerobatic weight, but only 130kt for utility weight.

RV7/8 quoted as 142mph=123kts. But the applicable weight is not mentioned. I naively assumed that for max gross.

Am I wrong?
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  #23  
Old 03-29-2018, 03:02 PM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jimgreen View Post
I believe 147kt is for the aerobatic weight, but only 130kt for utility weight.

RV7/8 quoted as 142mph=123kts. But the applicable weight is not mentioned. I naively assumed that for max gross.

Am I wrong?
You are correct about the RV-14. The 147 knot maneuvering speed is at aerobatic gross weight per Van's.



I would assume that the stated maneuvering speed for all of Van's aircraft are at max aerobatic gross weight as well.
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  #24  
Old 03-29-2018, 04:27 PM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Red face Nobody said this was going to be easy.

So, I figure the best way to determine the maneuvering speed of your aircraft at a given gross weight is to see what the flaps up stall speed is and multiply that time the square root of 6.0 (2.449). I'll be doing that next time I go fly.
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:52 PM
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Ron,

Thanks for your time. I enjoyed listening to the archive of the Webinar.

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Last edited by jeffkersey : 03-29-2018 at 07:47 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-29-2018, 07:58 PM
912ry 912ry is offline
 
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Enjoyed the webinar! very informative, thanks for the effort
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  #27  
Old 03-29-2018, 08:13 PM
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donaziza donaziza is offline
 
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Hi Ron, I had accidentally missed the live webinar, so I just now watched the archive. Two things you said about spins confuses me a bit. At time 47:15, you talked about the 4 procedures to get you out of trouble:

Throttle: Idle
Controls: Force to neutral
Wait for 100 Kts
Recover from dive

You emphasized "not" to go past rudder neutral, because if one was in an inverted spin, and also not knowing if you were spinning left or right. Kicking the rudder the wrong way could get you killed. (I've heard of being in an inverted flat spins---don't wanna be there)

Sounds good.

Now go to time 49:54--Intentional spin. There you "do" say, "stick slightly forward and "do" put in some opposite rudder. Now I guess I can probably reason this out for myself,----The first case---you don't quite know what you've done to get yourself into this position, so do those 4 critical steps (above)----this will get you out of anything.

In the intentional spin, you're doing it intentionally, so it's OK to put in that bit of opposite rudder? Is that the reasoning?

But I don't want to second guess, I want to hear it from the master's lips.

One more question if I may. You talked about the "competition" aileron roll, and being at minus one G when inverted. Since you're only there for a second, one is not hurting a non oil inverted system engine, are you?

Last edited by donaziza : 03-29-2018 at 08:43 PM. Reason: One more question
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2018, 10:46 PM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
There is some info in this thread worth saving, but will be lost after 2 weeks. I think it should be moved to another Forum to keep it around for posterity. Would a Moderator please do that?

Maybe an "Aerobatics" Sub-Forum needs to be added under the "Main" Forum.

Thanks.
+1
I've been lobbying for an aerobatics forum heading for some time.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2018, 11:14 PM
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Saber25 Saber25 is offline
 
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Purchase a copy of "Better Aerobatics" by Alan Cassidy. "Aerobatics" by Neil Williams. "Fly for Fun" Bill Thomas. "Spins in the Pitts Special" by Gene Beggs . "Roll around a Point" by Duane Cole or any number of good books addressing aerobatics are a good starter for the beginner aerobat. These books give step by step control inputs in addition to helpful diagrams and pictures.

Cheers, Hans
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Last edited by Saber25 : 03-30-2018 at 07:23 AM. Reason: add a name
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2018, 06:11 AM
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ronschreck ronschreck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaziza View Post
Hi Ron, I had accidentally missed the live webinar, so I just now watched the archive. Two things you said about spins confuses me a bit. At time 47:15, you talked about the 4 procedures to get you out of trouble:

Throttle: Idle
Controls: Force to neutral
Wait for 100 Kts
Recover from dive

You emphasized "not" to go past rudder neutral, because if one was in an inverted spin, and also not knowing if you were spinning left or right. Kicking the rudder the wrong way could get you killed. (I've heard of being in an inverted flat spins---don't wanna be there)

Sounds good.

Now go to time 49:54--Intentional spin. There you "do" say, "stick slightly forward and "do" put in some opposite rudder. Now I guess I can probably reason this out for myself,----The first case---you don't quite know what you've done to get yourself into this position, so do those 4 critical steps (above)----this will get you out of anything.

In the intentional spin, you're doing it intentionally, so it's OK to put in that bit of opposite rudder? Is that the reasoning?

But I don't want to second guess, I want to hear it from the master's lips.

One more question if I may. You talked about the "competition" aileron roll, and being at minus one G when inverted. Since you're only there for a second, one is not hurting a non oil inverted system engine, are you?
Don,

You correctly answered your own first question. Bill Finagin's 4-step recovery is for an out of control situation when you may not know which direction you are spinning. In a CONTROLLED spin recovery, rudder opposite the direction of rotation is required to stop the spin on heading.

Second question: Momentary loss of oil pressure may be noticed during brief negative G maneuvering. A second or two of inverted flight is not going to damage your engine but you are likely to lose a lot of oil from the vent. A half Raven system will keep the oil off the belly. A full inverted oil system is needed for extended negative G operation.
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IAC Director and National Judge
RV-8, "Miss Izzy", 2200+ RV Hours
Track Me *** Gold Hill Airpark (NC25)
VAF 2019 Donor
"Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing."
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