Build or buy

I have decided that I want a rv4. Now the question is to build or buy. I have been shopping around and a lot are telling me that you cannot build them for the price of buying a completed one. I have come across a few project build that sell cheaper than a complete kit from vans. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated! Thank you

It all depends on what you want. If you can find a good fuselage and engine, you can always change the instrument panel, prop (make sure the engine can accept a CS prop), interior, etc.

If it gets down to building, build the -8. They are easier / faster to build and when you are finished, you can still sell it for more than you will have in it.

Good luck figuring out what you are going to do!

Make sure to get someone knowledgeable on RV's to inspect it for you and read upon pre-buy's on this forum. There are some really good airplanes out there and some really bad ones.

Do you want the experience of building? Do you think you would enjoy it? If the answers are no, then buy.

About ten years ago, if you wanted a RV-7, you pretty much had to build one. They weren't often for sale and there were a lot fewer flying. So, off I went. One surprise was the level of commitment. The second surprise, however, was how much I really enjoyed building. So, in time, the project became an airplane - on the day the DAR handed me an airworthiness certificate, someone took a picture and the image captures exactly what was going through my mind (it's done - what am I going to do now?). I'm very pleased with the airplane and how it flies. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

On the other hand, about a year ago, a friend was interested in a RV-7 - did some looking around and decided to buy one already flying (O-360 with FP prop) (He concluded that he could not build for less than what he could purchase one.) In his case, he's not interested in building or, for that matter, a lot of owner maintenance. He's interested in having a fast reliable airplane that can do what the RV does well. So, for him, it's the right decision. Once a year he has to have an A&P do the inspection; otherwise, he gets to pretty much enjoy the same freedoms that experimental flying offers. He's moving along near 160 kts and very happy with that choice.

Dan

Build/Buy always a question

If you think you'd love to put upwards of two years of full time 40hours++ a week work into a project like our friend David just did, then by all means build. If not, then buy.

David took about 2.5 years to build this fine RV-8 and it is sure to have enduring value over the cost of the parts. His labor could be close to free however. I bet with him it's more a labor of love since this is his 3rd build IIRC.

David's build site is here...

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=81476&highlight=build+begins

Jerry

If you want to go flying, buy the RV-4.

If you want to build an airplane, the RV-4 kit will entertain you for quite a while.

It probably is cheaper to buy right now than to build, and while you might not wind up with the options you'd choose if you were building it, the airplane won't know.

Building is a LOT different than going flying. I like both. I have a perfectly good airplane to fly and am enjoying building my RV-3B. I would not have started to build an airplane, even if it had more seats, if I didn't already have a plane to fly.

Dave

Build an airplane because you want to build an airplane!

Buy an airplane if you want an airplane!

Mel said:

Build an airplane because you want to build an airplane!

Buy an airplane if you want an airplane!

Click to expand...

Pretty basic, but Mel hits the nail on the head. I'm convinced a lot of kits you see for sale are from builders who wanted a plane. It is a serious commitment and undertaking - and also a serious amount of fun if you go into it with the right mindset and attitude. If you merely want a plane, there are a bunch to choose from.

Building an RV-4 is a great way to gain confidence, learn a lot, and do something that few will ever accomplish. You will end up with an airplane just the way you want it if you so decide.

Buying an flying RV-X will end up being cheaper if you apply any value to your time spent while building it. There is the "opportunity cost" as well in that the time you spend building you will be able to do something else - like flying.

In my mind if you have to ask the question you already know the answer. Enjoy flying your, new to you, RV-4. They are a blast to fly?.

60av8tor said:

Pretty basic, but Mel hits the nail on the head.

Click to expand...

Ditto.

I have an Alon Aircoupe, a fun flyer but low performance. 6 years ago I wanted better performance but certificated used fast aircraft (Mooneys, etc.) were well out of my price range. Already-flying newer-model RVs were also priced well above their parts cost. So, I started building an RV-9A Quick Build. I took the 6-day Synergy Air class (fantastic basic building course), another Synergy Air class on fast-building your Quick Build, but 6 years later I still have at least one to two more years to go...and that's with finally hiring someone skilled to come by once a week and advise and help.

With my knowledge now, and prices now, almost certainly I wouldn't build. I'm not a natural wrench, I do enjoy the tasks but enough is enough, and approaching 60 years old I want to fly, dammit, not build anymore. I'll see it through, and have the plane I want, but I've lost years of flying adventures. See the QB-SA in my signature? That means Quick Build-Slow Assembly.

Meanwhile a Coupe buddy sold his plane about the same time I started building and bought a flying RV-6A at a net cost of about $20,000. It's well-built and he's had 6 years of fun. He participates in formation flying exhibits, has been to Oshkosh I don't know how many times, etc.

Not everyone is a fast, skilled builder. Know thyself.

It hasn't been mentioned, but if you decide to buy, make sure you have someone experienced in RV construction do an extensive pre-buy inspection. It also helps in negotiating a price if you discover any problems or any service bulletins that need to be addressed. The -4's are not pre-punched and requires a lot of fabrication of parts. There are a few guys here on the forums that found out the hard way when the plane they thought was in good shape turned out to be a disaster after it was already purchased. You really need to check the workmanship and learn a little about the builder. I bought a fixer-upper last year that required way more work than I anticipated. But hey, I'm not complaining because I got it really cheap and was going to rebuild it to my preferences anyway.

Many times, people call me and say they would like to build an airplane.

I ask them why ?

If they say - they want to build an airplane, I start talking about choices, paths, time, commitment, difficulties, support, forums, friendships, good times, challenges, fulfilment, success and ultimate pride.

If they say - I want to fly an airplane - I say - go buy one.

That's it

I helped my friends build 4 different RVs from -4 thru -10. Probably put enough blood sweat and tears into them to be roughly equivalent to having built a whole airplane myself. When I finally was financially able, I bought an already built RV-6 from another friend who I watched him build it back during my first couple years of being a pilot, and was there the very day it made its maiden flight after the DAR's paperwork/signoff was completed.

I always wanted to build my own RV-7 but was tired of working on airplanes when mine came up for sale so I just got the financing together and bought it. I ended up with a very well-built, great looking and good flying airplane. Yeah, I really wished it had a 360 engine and constant speed prop, but like Mick Jagger sang... "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you'll get what you need"

I needed an RV and now I got one.

If you decide to build, go for an 8. Its a clean sheet airplane, easy to build, and lots of fun to fly.

If you decide to buy, go for the 4. Its a good value for a flying airplane. To build a 4 doesn't make sense, it is not punched and not easy to build. In the end it still is a 4.

I would like to thank everyone for the reply's! its all very useful information and I appreciate it.
The reason I asked the question is I came across a kit that looks to be past quick build stage. The build is decent. He is selling the complete kit for 12000. I am pretty savvy around a airplane so I don't think building would be a issue. It just looks as there are some decent 4's out there 40000 range. Not sure if I can build one that cheap.

The real cost of building

mcdblj said:

It just looks as there are some decent 4's out there 40000 range. Not sure if I can build one that cheap.

Click to expand...

There are two types of first-up builder. There are those who significantly over-run their initial budget....and those who don't know what they spent because they didn't keep an accurate log of their daily build expenses.

First time builders just don't initially allow for the myriad number of little costs that will eventually be involved in the build process (that all add up). You just don't know what you don't know.

Forget about Van's calculator....its wildly optimistic.

I was personally amazed at the number of expenses that I incurred that eventually took the final build cost of my RV7A waaaay beyond my initial expectations.

I had no budget for ground cover insurance during the build years. I had no budget to transport the aircraft to the airfield. There was no allowance for a Halon fire extinguisher, joy stick grips, a stall warning system, cowl bungs, an aircraft cover, a canopy shade, etc etc etc. It just went on and on and on. Anyway you get the picture.

I also found that the Avery RV tool kit I bought was just the start of my tool purchases. A lot of builders will tell you that tools are not a part of the build cost. They say that if you don't instal it on the aircraft, it's not a cost. But that's just rubbish (just ask your wife ). If you buy a flying aircraft you don't need to buy the build tools.

Anyway, this is just to advise you that the real cost of building will be considerably beyond your initial expectations. Like others, I recommend you build only if you really want to build.

I am painting my -4 now. A lot of work, but well worth it. The -4 is said to be the best flying RV out there (fighter like). One of the guys on my field had a -4 and sold it a, then built an -8. He misses his -4, not to mention he had a gear leg failure on the -8.

Michael Henning said:

I am painting my -4 now. A lot of work, but well worth it. The -4 is said to be the best flying RV out there (fighter like). One of the guys on my field had a -4 and sold it a, then built an -8. He misses his -4, not to mention he had a gear leg failure on the -8.

Click to expand...

Michael,

Tell us about the 8 gear leg failure, what happened?

I believe it was the left leg that collapsed on a normal landing. Damaged underside of left wing some. I believe the gear leg failure was due to a bolt failure in the "tower". I am not too familiar with the -8.

Did you build it?

mcdblj said:

I have decided that I want a rv4. Now the question is to build or buy. I have been shopping around and a lot are telling me that you cannot build them for the price of buying a completed one. I have come across a few project build that sell cheaper than a complete kit from vans. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated! Thank you

Click to expand...

Being a Jurassic RV4 builder and 20+year RV flyer I agree with the statements above and yes, the RV4 kit requires much more work than the new "insta-kits". Yes, you can buy one cheaper than building one right now. However comma, you will know and appreciate your machine much more if you build it.
You can also answer "yes" to the first question everyone asks you at the gas pump: Did you build it?"

As mentioned, buying a well built project and finishing it is another option. Do you have the skills to pay the bills? I did, you can too...

V/R
Smokey

PS: If you need some advice, email me: [email protected]

I bought an abandoned RV7A QB kit/project for a good price. I am almost finished and have spent 3700 at Vans (missing parts, converting to taildragger, and a few mods) and 5400 at Aircraft Spruce. I would say I predicted about half of those expenses but, never building an airplane before, I just didn't know about some things. I hope to recover some costs selling some parts I have leftover but not depending on it. I still wouldn't change anything but I'm not finished yet either. If I had bought, I would be flying for the second year now!