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  #1  
Old 02-21-2012, 07:53 AM
CarlosF@grtavionics CarlosF@grtavionics is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MI
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Default Synthetic Approach to Your Backyard Strip

From time to time customers ask about the synthetic approach capability in the GRT Avionics Sport and Horizon EFIS (all models). How does it work, are public and/or private airports supported, etc. The one question that we have not been able to answer positively til now was, "Can I fly a synthetic approach to my backyard strip?" The answer now, is, yes, you can.

Below are file details to make a synthetic approach in the GRT Avionics EFIS to any landing site you want, anywhere in the world.

<GRTUserDB>
<Airport ident="UDBEX3" lat="42.900000" lon="-85.900000" elevation="604" name="USER DATABASE EXAMPLE 3">
<Runway surface="ASP" length="3000" width="50" >
<RunwayEnd ident="09" lat="42.900000" lon="-85.904000" elevation="606.0" />
<RunwayEnd ident="27" lat="42.900000" lon="-85.896000" elevation="602.0" tdze="602.67" dispthr="200" dispthrelev="602.27" lights="Yes" />
</Runway>
</Airport>
</GRTUserDB>


For more details about Synthetic Approach to Your Backyard Strip go to
http://grtavionics.com/Default.aspx?id=37

To learn more about GRT Avionics, it's products and capabilities visit http://grtavionics.com

Have fun, fly safe!

Regards,

Carlos Fernandez
GRT Avionics
...above, beyond.

Last edited by CarlosF@grtavionics : 02-21-2012 at 08:15 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2012, 08:48 AM
bkthomps bkthomps is offline
 
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dynonsupport- chime in on when you'll be doing this
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2012, 09:55 AM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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Great stuff, love the works you guys have been doing.

BTW, I have been waiting for the 3D display of traffic. When can we expect that?
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2012, 11:33 AM
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dynonsupport dynonsupport is offline
 
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Brian,
We've considered this and we have some real reservations about doing it. Our main concern is always safety, and we're not sure allowing users to create approaches to random points on the earth is a safe thing to do.

It's critical to know the safe angle to approach a runway at, and this is not always 3 degrees, because at some airports this will kill you. The accuracy of the data used for the end points and altitudes of the runways is also critical too. That's a lot of data and verification to ask a customer to get right.

Also, in our opinion it is not legal in the USA to follow the guidance that synthetic approach would give you, so we question it's real world usefulness. We'd prefer to put our energy into developing software that is more applicable to a larger base of users, and can really add day to day value to experimental aviation. If you're doing an IFR approach, you should really be properly equipped. If you're doing a VFR approach, your eyes should be outside.

Please don't take this as a criticism of GRT's decision or the quality of their implementation. This is just something that Dynon has considered and we have our own opinion on it. The fact that GRT can do something like this is a testament to how neat experimental aviation is. As always, we're open to discussion on the topic and interested in our user's opinions, and our users often change our opinions, so let us know what your opinion is.

--Ian Jordan
Chief Systems Architect, Dynon Avionics
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  #5  
Old 02-21-2012, 12:00 PM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Default More useful information

I personally think that any additional information that helps me safely arrive back on mother earth is useful..

I don't think anyone is going to blindly build an approach and fly it in IMC or darkness just because they can. This feature can be very useful as a backup to folks already familiar with their backyard airport.

I use this feature coming home and I know that if I fly the 3 degree SA I will hit terra firma on the north end. I won't do that. From the south it's very useful, especially at night with no VASI, PAPI and pretty weak runway lights.

It's just another piece of information in the bag. Darwin with take care of those who abuse it.
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2012, 12:33 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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I agree with Jerry - this is (and has been) an incredibly useful tool for night operations. Many (most?) small airports do not have VASI's, and approaching a strange field at night with all the height illusions inherent in that situation is problematic. Having something to give you a reference line off which to work. I never fly down the center of the SA/HITs at an unknown filed - I usually stay high - but I know how high I am.

People who are going to create their own instrument approaches in instrument conditions are going to do dumb things regardless - this is a useful tool for folks who want additional margin on their side.

It's a good tool.
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2012, 12:50 PM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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I guess I respect the Dynon opinion. Its yours to have and hold. Just like me choosing someone else's avionics suite. Thanks for keeping us "safer".
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2012, 12:51 PM
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Kahuna Kahuna is offline
 
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Its an incredibly useful tool for many different operations. I own both my HHX screens because they do have synthetic approaches to non-precision or otherwise non existant approaches.

An excellent safety tool for my airport with no approaches. It keeps me out of trouble in both day and night operations when finding the runway can be a challenge.

Great job GRT.
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2012, 01:02 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynonsupport View Post
Brian,
We've considered this and we have some real reservations about doing it. Our main concern is always safety, and we're not sure allowing users to create approaches to random points on the earth is a safe thing to do.

It's critical to know the safe angle to approach a runway at, and this is not always 3 degrees, because at some airports this will kill you.

--Ian Jordan
Chief Systems Architect, Dynon Avionics
Although I have no intention of creating my own approach, (not to mention no idea how even given the info from GRT,) I must say I would do a lot of day clear VAF testing of the approach before I ever tried it at night or in the soup.

As has been mentioned already, Darwin will get involved if folks are not doing things correctly.
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2012, 02:19 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Although I have no intention of creating my own approach, (not to mention no idea how even given the info from GRT,) I must say I would do a lot of day clear VAF testing of the approach before I ever tried it at night or in the soup.

As has been mentioned already, Darwin will get involved if folks are not doing things correctly.
Mike, I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on this. I also believe this added functionality should absolutely NOT be implemented on an approach that the pilot is not thoroughly familiar with. He/she should have full confidence that the information placed in the instrument is correct. If he/she is not confident in that information then, by all means, it is not a change that pilot should implement.

Given that, the truth is, I consider it extremely helpful to be able to do this on the private grass strip I fly out of. There are no approach plates, charts, or any other form of additional information out there anywhere about my private airport. The closest thing I have is that it is on the sectional. That is helpful to get me to the airport in route but does not help with an approach that may require additional information such as at night or, not that I would necessarily wish to do so, in IMC conditions.

Ian's statement that some 3 deg approaches will not work in certain airport locations is true but, then again, this functionality should be a user tool for the person who should have detailed information about his/her specific situation. Perhaps there are many flying behind these instruments that might not feel capable of creating these types changes to their instruments. However, there are also a great many of us builders out here who feel perfectly competent to be able to make these additional changes to our instruments. I have confidence that if I am intelligent enough to know how to build an airplane and install its instrumentation, I should be able to understand the particulars of programming its functionality in such a way that I fully understand what it is presenting to me when I use it.

I know the approaches very well on my airport. I know there is a tower 2 miles off of the south end of RWY 17 that is 369' AGL. I know there is a tower 2 miles north and 1/2 mile west off of the north end of RWY 35 that is 350' AGL. Otherwise there is nothing taller than a 50' AGL cottonwood tree anywhere near the runway. I like the idea that I can now go into my instrument and build a synthetic approach for this runway and know that it is based upon the detailed information I know to be true from the aeronautical charting that has already been done and my first hand knowledge of the environment surrounding this runway.

I really cannot fathom how LESS information is better than MORE information in this situation.
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