VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #121  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:32 PM
rmartingt's Avatar
rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
This kind of logic has won both aviation and non-aviation cases in the US. Just ask McDonald's about the lady who spilled hot coffee on her.
There's actually more to the infamous McDonald's coffee case. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.h...Speed=noscript

The plaintiff originally asked only for medical costs (to treat third-degree burns over 6% of her body) and lost wages; after going to trial she was awarded much more in punitive damages because McDonald's repeatedly shot itself in the foot on the stand and ticked off the jury. Effectively, they said "we knew the coffee was really hot and could cause severe burns, we didn't really tell the customers about it, we know we've had hundreds of people get serious burns from the coffee, but that's nothing, really." The eventual punitive damages came to something like a few hours' worth of coffee profits.
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:57 PM
jclark jclark is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 804
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
Happy Friday everyone,

Without commenting on the several topics of discussion going on in this thread, we just wanted to clarify that adding the capability for a G3X user to set up our VNAV feature to use a flight path angle instead of a vertical speed is in fact something we would like to investigate. If you've been following our products, you'll have noticed that we continue to roll out new features and improvements in our free software updates, and that we do go out of our way to incorporate customer feedback as resources permit.

Everybody have a great weekend, and fly safely...

- Matt
Thanks for bring the conversation back on track. :-)

As Widget mentioned earlier .....

DO NOT TRUST "Synthetic Approaches" from anyone unless you KNOW it is not going to fly you into a building or trees or a tower or whatever.
I think it is an emergency safety feature if you are stuck above a cloud layer, must get down, don't have appropriate IFR "stuff" and need additional assistance. It beats what might be the alternative and you will be around to fil out all the violation paperwork. (And that's a GOOD thing in this case!)

There are other uses for them and they are a good thing in gerneral in my opinion, but the moment someone uses one to plow into the ground is the moment all vendors are likely to remove or stop considering them.

Like many other features that the various vendors are making available to us, please use with proper discretion.
__________________
James E. Clark
Columbia, SC
RV6 Flying, RV6A Cowling
APRS
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 03-27-2015, 04:59 PM
Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt View Post
There's actually more to the infamous McDonald's coffee case. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.h...Speed=noscript

The plaintiff originally asked only for medical costs (to treat third-degree burns over 6% of her body) and lost wages; after going to trial she was awarded much more in punitive damages because McDonald's repeatedly shot itself in the foot on the stand and ticked off the jury. Effectively, they said "we knew the coffee was really hot and could cause severe burns, we didn't really tell the customers about it, we know we've had hundreds of people get serious burns from the coffee, but that's nothing, really." The eventual punitive damages came to something like a few hours' worth of coffee profits.
If you have Netflix, watch "Hot Coffee." It's a documentary on tort reform but soecifically delves into this case. You'll never use it as a punch line again, and McDonald's should've paid out 10x what they did based on how they treated her.
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 03-27-2015, 05:26 PM
brad walton brad walton is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 519
Default

If you don't want the information that is available to you, don't accept it. But I want it and accept the information provided by modern avionics quite happily. I never imagined I could have this much situational awareness in an airplane when I started flying in the last century. I think it is great and never want to go back.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 03-27-2015, 05:49 PM
Mancival Mancival is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3xpert View Post
Happy Friday everyone,

Without commenting on the several topics of discussion going on in this thread, we just wanted to clarify that adding the capability for a G3X user to set up our VNAV feature to use a flight path angle instead of a vertical speed is in fact something we would like to investigate. If you've been following our products, you'll have noticed that we continue to roll out new features and improvements in our free software updates, and that we do go out of our way to incorporate customer feedback as resources permit.

Everybody have a great weekend, and fly safely...

- Matt
Happy to help with the development and to test the first version.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 03-30-2015, 02:27 AM
Mancival Mancival is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 38
Default

So far we discussed which system (GRT, AFS, G3X, Dynon, MGL, GTN650/750, G1000/G900X) allows the pilot to program a vertical path, WITH CONSTANT GLIDE ANGLE (e.g. 3 Degrees) and CONSTANT BEARING, to a user-defined waypoint (e.g. a private strip). The ranking is
1) G1000/G900X
2) AFS, MGL, GRT
3) G3X (perhaps in development, not yet available)
4) Dynon, GTN650/750 (not available AFAIK)

However this is just half of the equation. The other is having a good autopilot that can couple with such vertical path and bring you down smoothly. In the certified world, there are 2 types of autopilots:

Rate-based: like the STEC 55X and KAP140
AHRS/Attitude-based: like the DFC90 or the GFC700

I've flown many hours with both the STEC55X and the GFC700 (both in the same plane, an SR22), and I can confirm the general consensus that you DON'T want a rate-based autopilot coupled to a vertical approach path if there is lateral wind (it will start porpoising and oscillating more and more). Since I'm new to the experimental World, I'd like to ask here which non-certified autopilots are of the AHRS-based type (TruTrak? Own autopilots offered by GRT, AFS, G3X?).

Last edited by Mancival : 03-30-2015 at 06:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 03-30-2015, 03:42 AM
Rainier Lamers Rainier Lamers is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somerset West
Posts: 1,024
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancival View Post
5) Dynon, MGL, GTN650/750 (not available AFAIK)
I don't think you have done your research quite accurately.

MGL has has this kind of function for 9 years now. The required data comes from the various sources (for example FAA database or Jeppesen). You can set any glide slope angle you like (normally 3 degrees but personally I prefer 4 degrees).
Using our MGL Central application you can define as many other strips as you like, either by using known coordinates and threshold elevations or - if you happen to be able to see your strip on Google Earth - just click on the two ends of the usable runway. Can't really be done any easier...

This data can be used in addition to any installed databases as "secondary" database.

How is is used ?

You have automatic approach guidance - whenever the system detects that you are in possible range of a runway on a meaningful approach bearing you get a line of blue crosses on the synthetic vision extending from the runway threshold into the sky (at whatever favourite glide slope you have selected). To fly this manually - easy. Just line up the crosses in front of you so you see one cross only. You fly "into" the crosses similar to a box type highway in the sky. The runway is at the end - usually just before that you get the "ground proximity" warning from the nice lady in your headsets).

At any time you can convert the blue crosses into green ones - if you do that you have selected a GLS approach and HSI and glide slope indicator reacts as you would expect. large ILS/glide slope "needles" can also be enabled. In this case, if you are flying on autopilot, the AP will duly attempt to intercept the ILS and glide slope and should you not do anything about it - will crash you right into the threshold of the runway. At any time you can also select a missed approach and the AP (or flight director) takes you on a climb to a selected altitude maintaining runway heading - during this you can elect what to do next (aim for a hold or go around for example). This can also be triggered automatically - just give full engine power and missed approach is triggered without you doing anything.
Of course you can activate a GLS from anywhere - you don't have to wait until the blue approach guidance appears.

The line of blue crosses BTW also extends from the threshold on departure. This makes it rather simple to climb out exactly on centerline if you so desire.

Liability ? From what has been written in this interesting thread. Perhaps yes.
Useful ? Absolutely.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 03-30-2015, 06:02 AM
Mancival Mancival is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainier Lamers View Post
I don't think you have done your research quite accurately.

MGL has has this kind of function for 9 years now. The required data comes from the various sources (for example FAA database or Jeppesen). You can set any glide slope angle you like (normally 3 degrees but personally I prefer 4 degrees).
Using our MGL Central application you can define as many other strips as you like, either by using known coordinates and threshold elevations or - if you happen to be able to see your strip on Google Earth - just click on the two ends of the usable runway. Can't really be done any easier...
Perfect, post amended. How about the autopilot recommended by MGL? Is it AHRS-based or Rate-based?
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 03-30-2015, 07:53 AM
Rainier Lamers Rainier Lamers is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somerset West
Posts: 1,024
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancival View Post
Perfect, post amended. How about the autopilot recommended by MGL? Is it AHRS-based or Rate-based?
Autopilot recommended by MGL ?

Do you know we have an internal autopilot ?
Yes, you can indeed elect to have an external AP as well - if you want to fly glide slopes then that needs to be an ARINC based one as NMEA does not do vertical (it does but it seems no vertical nav source sends the required sentence).

The internal AP is both AHRS and rate based (any AHRS based AP will use rates from the AHRS in addition to knowledge of attitude).

The external autopilot depends on the maker of course (most use Trutrak). Our own external stand-alone autopilot due for Oshkosh is AHRS based (in fact it contains much of the actual EFIS autopilot including built in WAAS GPS, NMEA, ARINC and SL30 or compatible Navradio inputs).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 03-30-2015, 10:43 AM
Mancival Mancival is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London
Posts: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainier Lamers View Post
Autopilot recommended by MGL ?

The internal AP is both AHRS and rate based (any AHRS based AP will use rates from the AHRS in addition to knowledge of attitude).
Thanks Rainier. Just to make things clear on the MGL system, can your internal AP, as of TODAY, fly the synthetic VFR Vertical approach generated by your MGL EFIS (I mean both laterally and vertically)? Can it fly an IFR vertical approach (ILS or LPV) coming from an external source of IFR navigation (like a GTN650)?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.