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  #21  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:14 AM
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apkp777 apkp777 is offline
 
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Location: Salem, OR (KSLE)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963 View Post
Great points Kevin, and Tony, I have to add one thing.
I too have only 25 hrs and a few dozen landings, so am 'feeling' out the right speeds.
My question is; are full flaps really better than 2/3? If they only lower the stall 1 knot, and max lift is at 15-20 degrees, are we better off to use 20, and then be able to slip with more safety or authority if needed, or accelerate out of a botched flare into a climb?
Just a question, based on some of the opinions that full flap slips are 'bad'.

Testing at altitude has to be the best, and most difficult thing in the world to do! maybe with a safety pilot calling out the descent, while you look out the front pretending to see the numbers. ( where's that synthetic HUD when I need it!?!?!)
I agree that doing a hundred Cherokee 140-style arrivals, (dropping it in from 6' a bunch of times) is not good for the -9 gear or anything else.
Hey Perry, Sounds like you and I are at the same rodeo! I was told that full flap slips are not a problem in the -9. I too would like to hear some response to that. I have tried to notice a CAS error when I roll into a slip. It appears there is none. Cessnas get error if ram air enters the static port. Also they get tail buffet with full flaps. I noticed none in the -9.

I am trying to take a scientific approach to flying the pattern and just not finding the combination yet.
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:28 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
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Full flaps on a Cessna can cause blanking of the elevator during an extreme slip, even though I've never seen this happen on the later "swept tail" models. The early square and round tail models had much more rudder authority and could get you into trouble with a full flap slip.
Low wing airplanes typically don't exhibit this characteristic.
The last 10 degrees of flap on an RV don't noticeably reduce stall speed, but they do add drag. I always use full flaps when landing on short runways.
My runway is 1500' and many people consider this short!
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  #23  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:47 AM
Steve Steve is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roy, Utah
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Its all about power management. I'm pulling off an inch of power every minute starting 10 miles out. There are many Cessna type planes where I live so you gotta slow down to merge nicely.
I fly the pattern at 800' AGL.
I also keep it in close on downwind - 1/4 mile or so. Pull off remaining power to idle about midfield. Flap speed is 90 mph (top of the white arc).
10 deg flaps abeam the numbers trimming for 80 MPH.
20 deg flaps on base trimming for 70-75 mph.
30 deg flaps on final trimming for 65-70 mph.

My pitch trim is usually full nose up by the time I land. Even though I have a FP Sensi prop, I installed an MP gage.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:49 AM
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dedgemon dedgemon is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777 View Post
Thanks Greg,

I am going to give your technique a whirl. It sounds like you keep in pretty tight. Something that I like. I am finding that it's tough to keep the speeds down. I had been aiming for 65kts, but I think that's my problem. The wing is too efficient at that speed. I will slow it to 60 kts and see how it does. I know its a slightly nose high sight picture, that's where the the difference in airplanes is significant.
Tony,
About 450 hours now in the '9 (with CS prop). I have moved my speeds down the last couple of years (I operate off of 2000' of grass) and it helps with consistency.

Another thing that helps with a consistent soft touchdown is to get the nose up. I mean really up in the flare. If you raise the nose just a little you'll get an okay arrival but typically it will drop in a bit. If on the other hand you raise the nose more just as you think you're about to touch, you'll soften the impact and get a lot of aerodynamic braking.

Currently I'm doing the following.

Solo (1500 lbs or so) 60 knots on short final with full flaps. Stall in this configuration is buffet at 46-47 knots and break at 45.

Gross 65 knots with full flaps. Stall in this configuration is buffet at 50-51 and break at 49-50 knots.

Give that I have a CS prop, I almost always need a hint of power on short short final, but I pull to idle as I begin the flare.

Good Luck
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:04 PM
MTBehnke MTBehnke is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Andover, MN
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Default Approach Speed RV-9

Van's gives 100 mph (87 kts) for 15 degrees flaps and 90 mph (78 kts) for full flaps.

I usually aim to slow to 85 kts when abeam the numbers, then add partial flaps and pull back on the power. Getting partial flaps in makes it a lot easier to slow down more from there.

After turning base I slow to 75 kts and add the rest of the flaps in. Once on short final I slow to 65 kts + 1/2 any gusts.
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2010, 06:09 PM
DennisRhodes DennisRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, Ga
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Default Approach in my 9

I enter downwind and slow to 90 MPH . Set 10 deg flaps and go to 80 MPH Set another 10 deg flaps (20) prior to turning base. Work to 70 MPH and set max flaps prior to turning final. HOLD 65 MPH on final no slower than 62 over numbers flair and land. Using a 1800 ft grass runway and can usually land with 600 feet left over on the runway. Not perfect every time but at least respectable 4 out of 5 times. My runway does not have " side limits therefore the nose high get me off to the side sometimes. I usually cut the grass wider on the " landing end" RV9 with slider , FP and O320 120 hrs TT Most of my time is without any passengers might make that 65 over the numbers with load or gusty wind.
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  #27  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:59 PM
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flyboy1963 flyboy1963 is offline
 
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Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
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Default numbers game

...Interesting; I fly almost that exact profile....in KNOTS!
So I am 15% faster, assuming the ASI is reading similar accuracy at those speeds.
I'll say, 62 knots over the numbers, and she's sinking like a rock. I usually have enough energy and elevator to flare, but it don't seem to float much.
I can't imagine at 54 knots....( 62 mph) that there would be much cushion above the stall....your technique would have to be perfect!
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Last edited by flyboy1963 : 06-30-2010 at 09:00 PM. Reason: conversion
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  #28  
Old 07-01-2010, 03:59 AM
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Kevin Horton Kevin Horton is offline
 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963 View Post
...Interesting; I fly almost that exact profile....in KNOTS!
So I am 15% faster, assuming the ASI is reading similar accuracy at those speeds.
I'll say, 62 knots over the numbers, and she's sinking like a rock. I usually have enough energy and elevator to flare, but it don't seem to float much.
I can't imagine at 54 knots....( 62 mph) that there would be much cushion above the stall....your technique would have to be perfect!
Keep in mind that the airspeed system errors (ASI instrument error + static system position error + low speed pitot error + effect of any leaks) may differ between these two aircraft. So, if you were flying in formation, at the same airspeed, the ASI indications might differ quite a bit.

In other words, the indicated airspeeds for approach and landing that work well on one aircraft, with its individual airspeed system errors, may be completely wrong on another aircraft.

If you've got a set of speeds and techniques that works well for you in your aircraft, don't beat yourself up over the fact that someone else uses a different ASI reading than you do.
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  #29  
Old 11-22-2013, 05:10 PM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
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Unhappy Slow down Bessie!

Bought a 9A with FP yesterday. Help! I can't slow down. Is electronic ignition keeping rpm higher than mags?
Can't seem to get down to white arc. Lands ok with no flaps but floaty.
Any help?
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  #30  
Old 11-22-2013, 05:37 PM
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Greg Arehart Greg Arehart is offline
 
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Location: Delta, CO/Atlin, BC
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Shouldn't be an issue. I pull power to idle and put in full flaps abeam the numbers, turn base when numbers are at 45 degrees over my shoulder, and usually end up right on the numbers. This is at 5000 ft (similar to Prescott). At lower altitudes I tend to float more. Full slip if needed to get down. (our pattern altitude at RTS is about 800agl so I may be starting a bit lower than you). If you're not careful putting in flaps, you might gain 100-150 feet altitude.

Just thought of another possible issue keeping your rpm higher than normal - you might check the idle jet and make sure it's set for the proper altitude (don't know where you bought the plane).

Greg
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