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  #11  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:30 AM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Here is one of a couple of my posts on how I do a wingtip VOR antenna: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=153969

To the question of RF noise from AeroLeds, I did have a problem with the first generation of AeroLeds in my RV-10, but the problem was much more severe with the comm radio (antenna on the belly). Working with Dean at AeroLED I was able to eliminate 95% of the noise via different grounding approaches, but then Dean just sent me the current version of the wingtip Nav/Strobe and the problem was gone.

I do however mount the wingtip VOR antenna toward the middle of the wing rib instead of the forward area just to gain a few inches of spacing with the Nav/Strobe. No RF noise. Performace is as I previously discribed - this $2 or so antenna does everything you need for VOR, LOC and GS reception.

I have not used the Archer Nav antenna but Iíve seen them. If up to me I would mount the antenna on a small piece of 0.063Ē aluminum to the outboard rib, not the wingtip (that way you can remove the wingtip without removing the antenna, and it solves the grounding problem). I would also lengthen the leg that extends into the wingtip to the maximum extent possible (and shorten the trailing leg the same amount). I would also not do the wire to the NAV/Strobe along the antenna as discussed in the Archer instructions. No matter what however, I would check the antenna tuned to the proper frequency and matched to the feed line (here you need an antenna analyzer as discussed in my other post).

Carl
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:55 PM
DRMA DRMA is offline
 
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Location: Sugar Land, TX
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I have installed a RAMI AV-520 antenna in the top of my Vertical Stabilizer on my RV-10. I haven't got the 10 flying yet so can't comment on how effective the antenna will be, but it was a relatively easy install. With the height of the VS on the RV-10 it shouldn't be an eye hazard to even the tallest basketball player <grin>.

If you would like some photos of my install, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send them to you. I don't have an on-line photo account set up so can't post pics to this website.
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RV-10 Finishing Kit & FWF in-progress
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:32 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
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I am kind of thinking toward what Carl said about not ever using the VOR. I would be interested in hearing from anyone that did not even install a VOR antenna. Iím just not sure it even worth the effort or expense of he install.

As a data point, I fly about 800 hours per year for work and even more adding in the GA time. I canít even remember the last time I used a VOR except for Instructing PP students...and once they have the VOR lessons complete, they donít use them either. FYI, both work and instructing aircraft have IFR GPS.

I havenít purchased my avionics yet so this is something Iím kicking around...
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues Paid 2018,...Thanks DR+
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:04 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketman1988 View Post
I am kind of thinking toward what Carl said about not ever using the VOR. I would be interested in hearing from anyone that did not even install a VOR antenna. Iím just not sure it even worth the effort or expense of he install.
What is your risk tolerance? Some have opted to fly ifr with a single efis and one gps nav radio, nothing more. The FAA says itís legal, but is it wise? Whatís your plan if that one gps box goes kaput, or if the government, a solar flare, or evil person jams the satellites?

Question for Carl: I installed a stock Archer nav antenna. But like you, I moved it aft a bit. Like you, I disregarded Bobís installation instructions wrt nav/strobe wires. And like you, I am perfectly happy with it. I keep reading complaints. Do you think itís possible that the original instructions are simply wrong?
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:07 PM
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Ivan Kristensen Ivan Kristensen is offline
 
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Location: Guelph Ontario
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Default VFR or IFR?

The question is are you going to fly VFR or IFR? If VFR only then I'd say forget the VOR antennas and receivers all together. The Future is GPS!!
Like Carl said, you will rarely if ever use it. I have flown my RV-10 for 8 years and 1000+ hours mostly IFR and I can't remember the last time I tuned a VOR. Now an ILS that is another matter but here again I much prefer to do the GPS Rnav approach when it is available. A certified GPS Navigator is required to do that and a Avidyne IFD440/540 if the perfect box to do that. IMO...
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RV-10 (C-GMDV) 1150hrs.
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:18 PM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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I'm with Bob on risk tolerance. I had 2 IFR flights in the past 12 months into areas NOTAM'd for GPS degradation due to military testing. In both cases my GPS never flagged, but no way would I have launched IFR in ether instance without a working VOR/LOC/GS backup (and in my case 2). I like having options. YMMV......
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:27 PM
Carl Froehlich's Avatar
Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
SNIP

Question for Carl: I installed a stock Archer nav antenna. But like you, I moved it aft a bit. Like you, I disregarded Bobís installation instructions wrt nav/strobe wires. And like you, I am perfectly happy with it. I keep reading complaints. Do you think itís possible that the original instructions are simply wrong?
I canít comment on the actual Archer antenna performace or installation instructions - but I know a lot of people are happy with theirs. Considering the vast majority of people using the Archer antenna simply slap it in and go, never checking it with an analyzer, might be the root problem why a few are disappointed in how it works.

I can comment on the Archer comm antenna. Years ago I flew with a homemade wingtip comm antenna in my RV-8A. A buddy in an RV-8 had a Archer wingtip comm antenna. When building mine I made sure I got the maximum vertical distance on the arm that extends out from the rib (this is where almost all the radiated power, send and receive, is located). We did a flight one day talking to Approach (very loose formation). I had full quieting in my comms, but Approach could not hear my buddy and I had to relay for him. While my buddy might have screwed up installation, I suspect if he tuned it with a real analyzer that might have made a big difference.

Side note - I later installed a second radio in this first airplane and used a standard bent whip antenna on the belly. The bent whip antenna always worked better than the wingtip comm antenna, but the comms on the wingtip antenna was still acceptable. For the current RV-8 project I will again use a wingtip comm antenna for Comm #2.

Carl
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:13 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
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Default RIsk tolerance

I will be flying IFR. In the past 7000+ hours flying IFR with two IFR gps units available, I have yet to have ANY issues that would necessitate a VOR. My -10 will have two gps sources and an independent backup. Still leaning towards no VOR...
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Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
Doors - Done
On Gear
290 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues Paid 2018,...Thanks DR+
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2018, 08:56 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Side note - I later installed a second radio in this first airplane and used a standard bent whip antenna on the belly. The bent whip antenna always worked better than the wingtip comm antenna, but the comms on the wingtip antenna was still acceptable. For the current RV-8 project I will again use a wingtip comm antenna for Comm #2.

Carl
+1. I have had exactly the same experience. One Archer-clone with the high current leading arm bent down as much as possible; one belly whip. The wingtip is generally not as good, but nowhere near as bad as many of the posts I see here.
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:23 PM
AV8ER AV8ER is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GT View Post
I put mine up there. Keeps it out of the way and gets great reception. I know some people put it on the bottom of the tail cone, but I do not like the look of them there. I can't remember the brand I used but the whiskers went into a composite puck about 2-1/2" - 3" diameter and 5/8" thick. I had to trim the top of the VS fairing to fit it in. After installation I faired it in with some micro & flox mix and painted what stuck out after masking off the rods.
[IMG]DSC01478 by David C, on Flickr[/IMG]
David, Did you mount the antenna in the fiberglass fairing vs mounting onto the top aluminum rib of the VS? Also do you have any internal pictures of the mounting?

All - Thanks for the quick responses. Wonderful validation that Vans products have an active and passionate fan base! I do plan to fly IFR as that is part of our cross country mission. Having the ability to listen to a VOR for FSS or Hiwas as well as a backup for approaches that is not dependent on GPS has significant value for me. While it is unlikely for me to use VOR for navigation, the redundancy is something that has merit. We do have small kids so putting the antenna under the tail is probably not a great idea but I am curious about the benefits of putting the antenna down there as it seems many people do this? For those who have done this please weigh in? The Archer wing tip antennas appear to be a nice compromise but I am trying to limit the items that may need "tuning" for optimal performance.

Static Wicks - I'll take it from the few responses that VERY few people install them and even LESS have issues without them?
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