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51% rule?

BAYJK

I'm New Here
Hello everybody. I am a new member to this forum and I have what may be a dumb question. I looked through the forum but I don't see it addressed. Question: If the RV-12 does NOT have to meet the FAA's 51% rule, if I build one myself, can I do all of the maintenance on it like any other experimental aircraft that I might have built?

__________________
Jim Kyne
Joined the forum on 4/4/14
Dues paid on 4/5/14 for a year
 
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Any one can do maint. or repairs on an experimental aircraft. The only certification required is for doing the annual condition inspection.
For E-LSA, you can acquire that by taking a 16 hr training course
 
Btw, welcome to the forum.
There is a lot of info in the forum related to yor question....
The challenge is finding it...
 
You have an option with the RV-12. You can license it as an E-AB or E-LSA. If you go the Experimental - Amateur Built route, then it is no different than the other RV's with regard to the builder being able to do the maintenance.

If you go the Experimental - Light Sport Aircraft route, then a licensed mechanic must do the maintenance. The good news is, you can get licensed by attending a class, as described above.
 
I know that when you build an experimental aircraft, say an RV-7, since you built 51% of it, the FAA issues you, as builder, a special mechanics license or permit to do any and all maintenance on THAT one aircraft. From what I'm reading in this forum, this is NOT the case with the RV-12? I realize that Vans sells a factory built RV-12 that is obviously built more than 51% by the factory, but if I build one from a kit, does it fall under the 51% rule? Or must I, as builder, still attend one of these 16 hour classes? Thanks.


__________________
Jim Kyne
Dues paid for a year
 
The RV-12 may be built either as an experimental amateur-built or an experimental light-sport aircraft.

As already stated by rvbuilder2002, anyone can perform maintenance on an experimental amateur-built or experimental light-sport aircraft. The repairman certificate only allows one to sign off the condition inspection.

For EAB aircraft one only needs to show qualifications to obtain the certificate.

For ELSA, one must attend a 16 hr course to obtain the certificate.
 
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Yesssss, Bill R. Made a typo above. If you either BUILD or BUY an ELSA RV-12 YOU can do all of the maintenance AND all of the post-licensed mods that you want. The only thing you CANNOT do is sign off on the annual condition inspection. You obtain that right by going to the 16 hour course, whether you BUY or BUILD. It is a bit surprising and different than EAB. The 51% rule has no relevance to building an ELSA, you can get all the help you want or even legally pay someone to build all or part of it.

IF you BUILD an RV12 as EAB, (and this is somewhat uncommon, in the US, usually involving the desire for a different engine or to use a used ROTAX) then the RV12 kit has been certified as 51% qualified. So you as builder would qualify for the certificate to sign off on the annual condition inspection for that particular plane, like any EAB. You can also do ALL maintenance yourself.

If you BUY an RV12 that was licensed as EAB it is just like any other EAB. You can do ALL maintenance and mods on it yourself (!) but you can never sign off on the annual condition inspection unless you have a maintenance rating that is a lot more than the 16 hour ELSA course!
 
Yesssss, Bill R. Made a typo above. If you either BUILD or BUY an ELSA RV-12 YOU can do all of the maintenance AND all of the post-licensed mods that you want. The only thing you CANNOT do is sign off on the annual condition inspection. You obtain that right by going to the 16 hour course, whether you BUY or BUILD. It is a bit surprising and different than EAB. The 51% rule has no relevance to building an ELSA, you can get all the help you want or even legally pay someone to build all or part of it.

IF you BUILD an RV12 as EAB, (and this is somewhat uncommon, in the US, usually involving the desire for a different engine or to use a used ROTAX) then the RV12 kit has been certified as 51% qualified. So you as builder would qualify for the certificate to sign off on the annual condition inspection for that particular plane, like any EAB. You can also do ALL maintenance yourself.

If you BUY an RV12 that was licensed as EAB it is just like any other EAB. You can do ALL maintenance and mods on it yourself (!) but you can never sign off on the annual condition inspection unless you have a maintenance rating that is a lot more than the 16 hour ELSA course!

That pretty much covers it (and is way more than I was willing to try and type in my other post since I was using my phone:eek:)
 
Mel,

To get that EAB Repairman license don't you have to be the builder? That was one reason I went ELSA so any subsequent owner could do the annual.

Rich
 
Mel,
To get that EAB Repairman license don't you have to be the builder? That was one reason I went ELSA so any subsequent owner could do the annual.
Rich

To qualify for the repairman certificate on an amateur-built aircraft you must be listed as a primary builder of the aircraft.
 
So if I buy all of the RV 12 kits from Vans directly and do 100% of the construction of an RV 12 and make it an ELSA, I can NOT do the Annual Conditional as the constructor without attending the 16 hour course? Is that correct?:confused:
 
So if I buy all of the RV 12 kits from Vans directly and do 100% of the construction of an RV 12 and make it an ELSA, I can NOT do the Annual Conditional as the constructor without attending the 16 hour course? Is that correct?:confused:

That is correct!
 
For what it's worth mine is an ELSA with 75K hull coverage in motion. No deductible and $1M liability for about $1100 per year. I built a single seat Aventura HP amphibian EAB and paid $800 for just hull coverage. Both were insured through the EAA program with Falcon.
 
No there is none!:D
That brings up a new question, does anyone have knowledge as to insurance premium difference between an ELSA and an SLSA RV12? If simply for the reason of deeper pockets to access, I would think the SLSA might be cheaper to insure.
 
Jim,

A hearty welcome! At the end of your build, when you go to register (assuming you're going ELSA) be sure your application states Vans Aircraft Inc. as the manufacturer. Your registration and aircraft plaque must both show Vans as the manufacturer. With your final paperwork, Vans will send you an affidavit to this effect, which the FAA will accept. Apparently, when the Aircraft Registration Branch "gives birth" to your plane, they consider Vans as the manufacturer and yourself as the "assembler".

Just so I don't sound like a know-it-all, I learned this lesson the hard way, and it took me MANY months to straighten out. It was, in fact, possibly the most difficult issue of the entire RV-12 process!

I purchased many tools for the specific purpose of building my '12, and now that the process is complete, I'd be happy to part with my pneumatic riveter, my squeezer, most of my clecos, etc. for a fair price.

Again, welcome. This blog was more helpful to me than any other single resource in my build. My plane came out great, and I knew practically nothing when I began. I went with every option except for the dual EFIS. The auto pilot is quite decent, and the ADS-B is to-die-for! I retired off the Airbus A320 in '08, and the EFIS in the RV-12 is superior to that, IMHO.

Jim Rogers
N448JR
 
That brings up a new question, does anyone have knowledge as to insurance premium difference between an ELSA and an SLSA RV12? If simply for the reason of deeper pockets to access, I would think the SLSA might be cheaper to insure.

Part of your insurance quote is based on your hull value. So the SLSA would have a higher premium because it's hull value is higher. ;)
 
I was thinking only in Liability terms. Seems to me that the SLSA being "assembled" by a professional shop as opposed the ELSA "assembled" by a bored housewife, would pose a different liability for the insurance company. Of course they may have not even realized all that difference yet.
(OK, I did not intend to discredit bored housewives, they in fact MAY do a better job, just using it for contrast to a factory assembly)
 
I wrote my agent at Falcon and received a response that there is no difference in premium between either the ELSA or EAB versions of the RV-12. There is a premium difference between the S-LSA version and E-LSA/E-AB though.

I'm going with the EAB version simply for the additional freedom during build. BTW, another item that I don't hear mentioned often is the 10,000 MSL flight limit. Now, granted, that's getting up there for the 100hp, but it is another LSA limit nonetheless.
 
I'm going with the EAB version simply for the additional freedom during build. BTW, another item that I don't hear mentioned often is the 10,000 MSL flight limit. Now, granted, that's getting up there for the 100hp, but it is another LSA limit nonetheless.

Actually the altitude limit is a sport pilot limit, not an LSA limit.
 
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