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Flight planning - not for the weak of heart!

flyboy1963

Well Known Member
In general, I only fly to fairly large, known fields. Once in a while, I look at smaller strips, and through historical data, experience, etc either write them off, or add them to my 'will-fly' list.
In reality, I should make a page of calculations so that i actually KNOW whether I can get in or out, on a hot summer day, with a full load.
In reality, I don't think I have take-off performance numbers that are meaningful in order to make accurate calculations.

for instance, as a 'fun' example, could you get in and out of the strip at
Lukla, Nepal Tenzing-Hillary VNLK / LUA

12% uphill gradient landing, downhill takeoff ( obviously)
Elevation: 9100 ft (2774 m)
Runway: 1500 ft (457 m)

how do you calculate this?
 
Assuming no wind, could you simply use charted takeoff/landing distance numbers, ignoring and accepting all benefit from an uphill landing/downhill takeoff?

I guess that only works if your number comes in under 1500. If it comes in at 1501 it might be nice to know the benefit factor...
 
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Aha! the numbers game is afoot

Hey TS, there's the rub......just where do you come up with these magical
'charted' numbers? I have not takeoff performance chart.
...love to see what you've come up with, and HOW? :)
 
Heh...well you got me there. I fly a Citabria...so the egineer was kind enough to make them for me. However, there is a small problem in that my chart doesn't go that high (I rent...the POH isn't handy at home). I'd sure hate to extrapolate and come up short.
 
how do you calculate this?

Very carefully! Seriously, to do it properly you need performance numbers for the specific aircraft then several hours spent head-first in endless, and probably nonexistent, in the case of an experimental, "spaghetti charts" or, access to a serious performance program. And I haven't seen a comprehensive program in the public domain. Running your sample, in the "quick and dirty" mode, it looks something like this; If the temperature at VNLK is at or below -17c and the wind is calm, and if your airplane will climb at 1000 FMP at sea level, you are going to need a minimum of 1800 feet of runway. That is just takeoff roll, not including accelerate-stop or any safety margin. The downhill slope will take a little off the required runway, but only about 8 to 10%. If you do manage to fall off the end, the climb rate will be something under 200 FPM.

A Nepal story, I was once approached about ferrying a large turboprop to Kathmandu. The project included giving checkouts to the new owner's crew. After a little research, I asked the broker involved how he suggested we do the engine-out part of the training, since the airport was above the single engine service-ceiling of the airplane. He never called me back. :rolleyes:

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Margins around the Envelope

VNLK / LUA

12% uphill gradient landing, downhill takeoff ( obviously)
Elevation: 9100 ft (2774 m)
Runway: 1500 ft (457 m)
how do you calculate this?

Your scenario is outside my curent personal flight envelope.

The way I approach "the envelope" is with a very big safety net. My personal minimums start with big margins. From there I find a place to "try out" the edges of my personal envelope.

If my plane is capable but I am not, then I look for a talented and experienced flight instructor. I've found some great (and thankfully patient) instructors. If I feel capable and the plane is capable then I find a similar scenario with large margins. In your example, I would look for sloped runways much longer than 1500' and mark for 1500'. Same for altitude. Then practice practice practice.

Larry Bird use to say, "I don't have natural talent so I have to work twice as hard.

I have a 1900' strip now. The RV-8 was new to me. I didn't make it into my strip. I used a 4000' runway for a couple of days. Then I made my field. Wind is no different. I recently started expanding my personal envelope on wind velocity and cross winds. I go back to big runways and work it where I have safety margins.

If you want it, work on using less runway at the big fields. You'll get betting with practice. Soon, hose shorter fields won't seem as short. On your next biennial, expand your envelope.

It's all good.
 
One technique is to compute takeoff roll based on wing loading (see AC90-89A), essentially a "most conservative" estimate and then adjust for density altitude effects and slope. A "best case" answer could be estimated by using test data from your airplane, if it's available, and then adjusting that. Britain's CAA has a good primer with some handy rules of thumb (Safety Sense Leaflet #7, Aircraft Performance) and the standard Koch Chart will provide estimates for altitude effects and correct for non-standard temperature. From a risk-management standpoint, it's best to compute "worst case."

RV-4 Estimate, 160 Horsepower Engine

Assumes 73% horsepower available at 9100' MSL under standard conditions

Standard temp at 9100 MSL: 26 degrees F

Worst Case Estimate, 1500 lbs gross takeoff weight, wing loading 13.6 lbs/foot: 850' required to accelerate and smoothly lift off at MSL (Per AC90-89A Minimum Recommended Runway Length Chart)

Density Altitude Adjustment:

Method 1, 10% correction factor per 1000' increase in DA: +774 feet
Method 2, Koch chart correction factor 180%: +680 feet

Net range for roll 1530-1624 feet corrected for density altitude affect (at standard temperature, no wind)

Slope Adjustment:

5% reduction per 2 degrees of slope: Net reduction 30%

Net range adjusted for slope: 1137-1043'

Surface adjustment: Dry grass (up to 8") on firm soil: Net increase 20%

Net range adjusted for altitude, slope, runway surface: 1252-1364 feet

So I'd guesstimate 1400' to get airborne. Not much margin for error, and no acellerate stop option, i.e., I'm committed to crash beyond the runway once I commit to takeoff.

Climb Performance Estimate:

Estimate rate of climb 992 FPM @ 102 MPH CAS (from bootstrap derived performance data corrected for density altitude affect). Koch chart estimates 70-75% reduction in rate of climb from standard, sea level conditions, so that works out to approximately 500 FPM, banding estimated climb performance between 500 FPM and 990 FPM.

Assuming worst case 500 FPM climb rate, climb gradient would be 345' per NM, so 3.4 degree climb angle required to clear obstacles.

Assuming best case 990 FPM climb rate, climb gradient would be 682' per nautical mile, or 6.8 degrees.

Therefore, I'd estimate climb gradient 3-6 degrees when looking at departure terrain.

If I had to adjust for non-standard temperature, I'd increase the distance 10% for each 10 degree C (18 degree F) increase. Headwind would increase performance, but I wouldn't factor it in (i.e., most conservative estimate), any tail wind would increase the estimate by 20% for each 5 knots of tailwind component.

Bottom line, I'd wait for my wingman to go first, and if he makes it, then I'd roll...

Cheers,

Vac
 
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12% downhill is like falling off a cliff. 1500 feet would be no problem. Even a 2% slope is quite noticeable. I used to fly a 206 into one of the San Juan Island airports that was on a steep slope and the usable portion was probably around 1500 feet. I always had to add power to get to the end of the runway after landing, and never had a problem taking off.
 
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