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SB 14-01-31; RV-6, 7, 8

No cracks found

No cracks found in HS or Elevator spars. No relief notches.

Steve Giesecke
RV-7a
Aerosport 360 Fixed Pitch
400 hrs total time
No acro with this owner (builder did a few rolls)
No dirt strip landings
 
Two aircraft, no cracks

RV-6, 180 hp, C/S prop, 1138 hrs since 8/95. No relief notches, No Cracks.

RV-6A, 150 hp, FP prop, 415 hrs since 10/97, No relief notches, No Cracks. The corners on this plane are pretty rough, very sharp corner, even under magnification. Still, no cracks. Go figure?
 
A nightmare for me

I thought it might be a good idea to do this mod with the anti splat aero doubler since it was time for the condition inspection. It took most of the day to get the eight rivets out on one side while keeping the existing rivet holes in good condition. The doubler for Anti splat does not fit in my RV7 as easy as it looks on their video. I am going to put the rivets back in and forget about the SB until I see a crack. Since I don't do aerobatics and everything appears solid, I can't see the point.
 
F-884 width?

Can someone tell me the max width of the F-884 VS to HS spar attachment plate? I'm incorporating the SB on my newly built HS :mad: and want to make sure I have adequate distance between the SB doublers. Don't have the fuselage kit yet.

Thanks
 
600+hour, No Cracks

600 + hours on my RV7, O360 with CS prop and no cracks. One side had a relief notch and the other did not, go figure. Almost zero acro, tried it and did not like it.
 
Question on new root rib

I am building a tail kit for an RV7 from 2007. I purchased the Horizontal stabilizer SB kit from Vans. I also bought the new root ribs(HS0005). I am not sure if I need to drill an additional hole in the rib and skin. Has anyone run into this? In the updated drawing there are two holes in the front flange of the rib. I know the old skins have an extra hole that isn't used anymore. I'm wondering if I should add a hole aft of the unused hole.

New builder, so any suggestions are much appreciated!
 
I am building a tail kit for an RV7 from 2007. I purchased the Horizontal stabilizer SB kit from Vans. I also bought the new root ribs(HS0005). I am not sure if I need to drill an additional hole in the rib and skin. Has anyone run into this? In the updated drawing there are two holes in the front flange of the rib. I know the old skins have an extra hole that isn't used anymore. I'm wondering if I should add a hole aft of the unused hole.

New builder, so any suggestions are much appreciated!

If I understand what you're saying correctly, you want to add an additional hole/rivet location to replace the one that isn't used anymore?

No need to do that. You'll be fine with the existing holes/rivets in the skin.
 
Unattached HS

I plan on doing Van's SB fix and wanted to ask if there is anything different I should do as my HS has not been drilled to the fuse. yet.

Thanks,
 
Mine wasn't attach either. The repair is still the same. If it doesn't have paint, you could considered drilling more of the skin fasteners for better access.

Brian
Georgia
Building an RV7
 
I've found a few errors in the instructions for SB 14-01-31, and I've spoken with Van's builder support to verify they are in fact, errors. Here are the corrections:

1) in Step 27: Figure 8 should be Figure 10. Trimming to a 5/16" edge distance is optional, but the edge distance should not be less than 5/16".
2) in Step 31: Figure 10 should be Figure 11.
3) in Step 33: Step 6 should be Step 10.

When I asked if Van's would re-issue the SB with these corrections, the rep. indicated that it was unlikely.

Also, it was difficult for me to understand Figure 3 until I turned it upside down. Then it made perfect sense. It's a view from under the HS, looking forward and to the right of the nose.

I hope this helps folks out there that are compelled to read and understand the directions before starting.
 
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Hmm...

Really... ? You would sure think they would want to get the correct information going out to the customer and it would probably cut down some of the phone calls to Van's questioning the SB and the process. Go figure. :confused:
 
Welcome to VAF, @six_rabbits!

It's possible that the number of calls they get will help them track who has actually applied the SB and who still has it sitting on their desk waiting for a rainy day... (I say, as I mark up the copy on my desk...).
 
Completed HS SB Today!!

It took 22 hours. Not too bad, just follow the instructions and take your time. Glad it's done.
 
No issues

I complied with the SB on my (new to me) RV8, kit dated 2002. Has not flown yet, but seemed reasonable to do it now, before fitting to the fuselage for the last time.

Van's "repair" parts did not, repeat NOT, make sense or fit. Angles were correct, but the holes semi overlapped in several areas. Ended up making a one piece plate that runs the entire distance across the exposed section of spar, instead of two parts. I removed a lot more of the 3/32 skin rivets than "required", as it made access somewhat easier.

The spar had no relief notches, and had distressed metal where the bend lines terminated at the edges of the spare. It would probably have cracked over time. The surfaces were not painted, so it only took me about 12 hours to do this SB from start to beer.

No biggie deal.
 
Complied with SB

For anyone keeping score, I complied with the Service Bulletin on my -7. I didn't keep close count, but I think it took 20-25 hours all said and done.

After the Service Bulletin was released in January, I inspected and found no cracks. That was with about 360 hours of flight time with a 3.0l Subaru engine and about 10 hours into my new IO-370 and hartzell prop. All landings on pavement, mild acro, nothing crazy.

I inspected again during my annual at the end of October, and found a very small crack (~1mm) in the upper left corner. At this point, I have about 100 hours on the new engine. I'm not sure if the engine change is related to the crack (different vibrations, and whatnot), but it's a data point.
 
What is necessary prior to certificate of airworthiness

I am a DAR in the Northwest. I just got off the phone with Vans. the service instruction is a bit vague, and it will be rewritten soon. Meanwhile, the later kits have a heavier cap in the area of the crack, that is what is meant as "not applicable" on the "chart". That does not mean that the SI does not apply to those aircraft, just the drawing. All RV 6-7-8 aircraft need to be inspected prior to further flight for these cracks.

also, per 8130.2G(change 1) and 8100-1 for all new aircraft being inspected for a certificate of airworthiness, all Vans service Instructions must be current at the time of issuance.

Some have said that the SI does not apply to an Experimental Aircraft. Here is the rub........ how can the repairmen or A&P certify that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation, when the manufacture of the kit says it is not? I would not want the liability when the lawyers start smelling blood.

While we are on the subject...... I have found aircraft with excessive clearance between the forward vertical attach bracket, with the bolting together causing stress on the bend radius. Vans plans call for a shim if the surfaces do not mate exactly. good time to take a look. I'm heading out to the hangar now to inspect my -7.

Fly Safe!

Gary Brown
ATP A&P IA CFI DAR

I am questioning the statement above. Gary, are you stating that the doublers would have to be installed prior to receiving a certificate of airworthiness or would just the inspection have to be done? Of course 0 hours and there will not be a crack. My aircraft is still under construction but the empennage is complete and I am concerned about messing up a rivet hole and having to remanufacture a HS. Then I would have to match drill the holes attaching to the empennage.

Basically, can I get an airworthiness certificate and continue my annual inspections per the SB?
 
Basically, can I get an airworthiness certificate and continue my annual inspections per the SB?

Yes. You should be able to.
Not having the doublers installed does not make the aircraft "not in a condition for safe operation", as long as there are no cracks present (nearly impossible on a brand new airplane).
If any other model RV without the doublers "is" in a condition for safe operation if it is inspected and has no cracks, then your airplane is no different, and is in compliance with the SB.... as long as the periodic inspections are done until the doublers get installed.

BTW, there is not any RV-6, 7 or 8 that this SB is not applicable to. The SB applies to all kits of all vintages.
The chart Gary was referring to is in Step 6 where you are instructed to verify that the corners of a flange were relieved as shown in a magnified view in the next figure. What the chart means, is that for certain vintage kits, "this step doesn't apply because they had pre-manufactured reinf. angles that had the corners relieved when they were made, so you don't need to check.
 
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Hi,

when i order now a 7, the problems are fixed from Vans site?

The Parts for the repair are included and the plans chanced from vans?

Thank you for an answer.

Chris
 
Hi,

when i order now a 7, the problems are fixed from Vans site?

The Parts for the repair are included and the plans chanced from vans?

Thank you for an answer.

Chris

Yes, the change was incorporated into the standard build of all the empenage kits effected.
 
Rivet Removal tool useful in SB work?

I'm about to begin disassembling my HS to install the SB required doublers & I have a question for those of you with more experience drilling out rivets.

Should I buy a rivet removal tool like the one sold by Brown or the Yard Store to use here? It looks handy for removing button rivets, but only if there is room to use it I suspect I'm not sure there is room inside the HS to make use of it.

Anyone try one and know for sure?

thanks
 
Drilling rivets

Ivan
I can't comment on the tool but I can impart some drilling techniques I learned on the HS SB repair. Unfortunately I learned them late after botching the job. I just finished drilling the skins off. All 540 of them.
Some may disagree but here goes.
Use a punch. Make a good centered mark.
Use a pilot drill bit much smaller then the rivet shank. I'm using #47. Too small and it may break. Don't ask. Use high speed and very little pressure.
Bump the trigger and look at the drill mark. Now's the time to get centered. It's tricky but you can coax it to center. Practice on some scrap.
Hit again and look. Continue till you have a centered hole and drill to the depth of the head.
Switch to to correct drill but use a drill stop so it will only go in the depth of the head.
Use an old bit to pop the head off.
Now you can see the center of the hole.
Use the pilot again to drill the rivet in the center deep enough to clear the parts. This should weaken the grip enough to punch it out. You can also grab the shop head with a pair of side cutter pliers and it should pop out. The tough part is drilling with a right angle tool.
My error was drilling without a pilot hole and going crooked. I ended up with one egg shaped hole the engineers said was too big. Over #20 and the part has to be replaced.
Download the latest SB. They added a page about elongated holes.
I decided to disassemble, order two new forward spars, angle reinforcements, main and nose ribs and reassemble the HS. YMMV
 
Brian,

Thanks for posting that video! It makes the instructions and previous posts make sense where otherwise it can be a little difficult to grasp what is being discussed without memorizing all the part numbers etc.

I think videos like that should be part of the instructions on any repair of service bulletin that is this involved.

Randall in Sedona
 
Finished

43 man hours. It didn't go exactly as planned but it's done. Engineers recommended replacement of one of the spars and angles due to an egg shaped hole. It seemed logical to do it all over so I completely disassembled the HS and replaced both the forward spars, the inboard ribs, the reinforcement angles and installed the doublers. Basically I built the HS twice. Glad to put this one behind me.
1z659qc.jpg
 
Helpful dimension should be in instructions.

Brian, Larry-
Thanks for the tips- very helpful.
I got everything disassembled successfully and was working on positioning the doublers when I found a dimension call-out in the current version of DWG 3 (on the CD) that really ought to be in the SB instructions. View B-B shows the inboard edge of the doubler set at 2 1/4 inch from spar center line. Using this made all the holes line up perfectly. Much more precise that trying to line up the bend-lines.
-Ivan
 
anyone know if on the updated plans they use these doubles exactly like the SB or do they go back to building like the -4 H-stab spar.

I was curious why this SB didn't apply to the -4. So I borrowed a set of -8 plans from a friend and i could see why.
In the -4 the doubler is basically already there,except it is installed on the front side of the spar and is "T" shaped so the top part of the "T" is used for attaching the V-stab. It is one piece that extends all the way across the center of the spar. Seems like it would be a much cleaner fix on new builds rather than having two pieces.
 
Finally got mine done...

So, a long holiday weekend, but no helpers around to finish up the fuse riveting ... what to do? SB-14-01-31, a bit of a dreaded chore.

However, it only took 19 hrs, including fabricating replacement HS-00003's since I buggered the edge distance on one. So happy to have some spare F-704H 0.063 stock from a previous do-over in my "waiting to be an airplane part" bin. 60 mins, the bandsaw, the file, the scotchbrite disk, drill press, and a mini-bender, and we have a perfect set of replacements (No Van's web store for me, ha ha!)

Overall, a very successful project. I found that the flexible "snake" extension on my dremel with a #30 drill was perfect for drilling out the #4 rivets between the HS 710/714's and the spar. Drill enough to get the heads off, separate the 710/714's from the forward spar, and then use the drill press to drill a #40 hole down the middle of the #30 rivets. With the material removed, the shop heads came out with just a bit of elbow grease, and the process minimized the enlarging of the #30 holes.

It all went back together very smoothly. Please, to not fear...
 
SB on Horizontal Stab

As you all know a SB does not have to be complied with, as it's just a recommendation. An AD does according To the FAA.
 
True.
But the FAA doesn't issue AD's on experimentals (other than extreme circumstances), so it is left to kit manufacturers. They can't issue AD's, so if one is issued it should be at least seriously considered.
Van's doesn't issue a structural related SB unless it is considered important.
 
Keep in mind that at the Condition Inspection SOMEONE has to sign a statement that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation. My opinion, and mine only, is that it might be questionable doing that without complying with the SB's.

For that reason, I do insure they are all complied with. :)

Vic
 
Compliance

I'm trying to understand these most recent comments. Are you guys implying that the reinforcement needs to be installed regardless of whether cracks exist?

The bulletin allows for inspection prior to further flight and then each annual inspection. Maybe I'm reading too much into these comments or not reading the bulletin correctly.
 
I'm trying to understand these most recent comments. Are you guys implying that the reinforcement needs to be installed regardless of whether cracks exist?

The bulletin allows for inspection prior to further flight and then each annual inspection. Maybe I'm reading too much into these comments or not reading the bulletin correctly.

You are correct. Being an A&P and very knowledgeable on RVs, all SBs need to be complied with for me to sign off the once a year "Condition Inspection." SB 14-01-31 requires that the reinforcement be installed if a crack is found. If a crack is found, I will NOT sign off the aircraft until after the reinforcement spelled out in SB 14-01-31 has been installed.

I prefer that the reinforcement be put in before the crack develops. I would like to think that most owners that were not builders schedule down time to install the reinforcement before a crack develops instead of wait till they are forced to have the aircraft down because of a crack.
 
I'm trying to understand these most recent comments. Are you guys implying that the reinforcement needs to be installed regardless of whether cracks exist?

The bulletin allows for inspection prior to further flight and then each annual inspection. Maybe I'm reading too much into these comments or not reading the bulletin correctly.

You are reading it correctly. Inspecting the area (and finding nothing) IS complying with the SB. The comments were directed at the statement that "...you don't have to comply with SBs" which is true, as long as someone feels they can sign off the condition inspection without looking there(!)
 
HS-0001 - Which way is up?

On DWG 3r4 and the SB drawing, they show conflicting info.

SB shows the 3/8" side to be down and the plans show the 3/8" side to be up. I of course already separated the pieces. Based on the way the edges are drawn in the SB and the 3/8" side, those look more accurate.

But wanted to double check...

Thanks.
 
SB 14-01-31

How do I get on the distribution list for Vans planes. I am the original purchaser of the kit.....the builder....and the one and only owner. I have never gotten any correspondence from Vans regarding service bulletins. I just happened to stumble on this one via this forum.
 
How do I get on the distribution list for Vans planes. I am the original purchaser of the kit.....the builder....and the one and only owner. I have never gotten any correspondence from Vans regarding service bulletins. I just happened to stumble on this one via this forum.

Book Mark this:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv8.htm


And check in daily to the =VAF= site and the fine people here will surely list anything new....
 
Did my inspection today...

RV-6 with -8 tail
Finished 2014
500 flight hours
IO-360 constant speed prop
Gentleman acro, and my trademark bouncy landings.
Paved runways only
No notches
No cracks
 
Can one make a hole from inside of the tail instead of drilling on the outside of the horizontal stab? I’m working on the conditional now and pulled the tail fairing and was thinking this would be a good place to put a hole as it’s concealed when the fainting is put back on the tail.
 
out board inspection hole

dmat. Pretty sure that you're going to have to make a hole on the outboard stabilizer end rib. At least on the -8 there's a rib that prevents you from viewing the out board hinge. The outboard hole is a good way to go. After I finished my repair I just used a plastic hole plug that seals it up quite well.
 
Hey Fred. I have a butt load of pics that I took on my repair but none of the plastic plug. Go figure. It's just a generic plastic hole plug that I picked up at ACE Hardware. You know. Their aviation aisle. :LOL:
 
out board inspection hole

dmat. Pretty sure that you're going to have to make a hole on the outboard stabilizer end rib. At least on the -8 there's a rib that prevents you from viewing the out board hinge. The outboard hole is a good way to go. After I finished my repair I just used a plastic hole plug that seals it up quite well.
Can one make a hole from inside of the tail instead of drilling on the outside of the horizontal stab? I’m working on the conditional now and pulled the tail fairing and was thinking this would be a good place to put a hole as it’s concealed when the fainting is put back on the tail.
I think these posts are referring to a different service bulletin, SB-00036?
 
Hi Steve. You're right. My apologies. I thought that this was the thread for SB-00036, cracks in the rear spar hinge attachments.
 
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You are correct. Being an A&P and very knowledgeable on RVs, all SBs need to be complied with for me to sign off the once a year "Condition Inspection." SB 14-01-31 requires that the reinforcement be installed if a crack is found. If a crack is found, I will NOT sign off the aircraft until after the reinforcement spelled out in SB 14-01-31 has been installed.

I prefer that the reinforcement be put in before the crack develops. I would like to think that most owners that were not builders schedule down time to install the reinforcement before a crack develops instead of wait till they are forced to have the aircraft down because of a crack.
Interesting opinion. I just bought the SB Kit a few months ago, and have yet to put it in. I have a LOT of hours on the aircraft, and still don't see any crack (inspected multiple time/year). I think the cracks occur for some because of how they fly/handle their plane, or possible because of some other building factor. I'm thinking about replacing the thin skin elevators and will probably install the kit then.
 
RV6_flyer said: ..."I prefer that the reinforcement be put in before the crack develops. I would like to think that most owners that were not builders schedule down time to install the reinforcement before a crack develops instead of wait till they are forced to have the aircraft down because of a crack."...

Interesting opinion. I just bought the SB Kit a few months ago, and have yet to put it in. I have a LOT of hours on the aircraft, and still don't see any crack (inspected multiple time/year). I think the cracks occur for some because of how they fly/handle their plane, or possible because of some other building factor. I'm thinking about replacing the thin skin elevators and will probably install the kit then.


Interesting indeed... what's the thought process that drives action above and beyond what Van's engineering advises?
 
RV6_flyer said: ..."I prefer that the reinforcement be put in before the crack develops. I would like to think that most owners that were not builders schedule down time to install the reinforcement before a crack develops instead of wait till they are forced to have the aircraft down because of a crack."...




Interesting indeed... what's the thought process that drives action above and beyond what Van's engineering advises?
My opinion only: " If it isn't broke, don't fix it". But keep an eye on it. If it begins to fail, fix it immediately...
Like I said above, I have a LOT of hours on the plane, and so far, no indication of a failure. But knowing it is a weak point, keep inspecting it.
 
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