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RVs and the elderly: The impossible task

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
I know I'm asking to do the impossible, but I have to give a try anyway.

My mother is 90 years old, doesn't move so well anymore, and -- let's face it -- we're running out of time.

I'm hoping to take N614EF back to Fitchburg, Massachusetts sometime after Oshkosh. Showing it to her would probably be good enough, but if I had one wish right now, it would be to figure out how to get a 90 year old woman who doesn't move so well in and out of an RV.

"I'd love to see what my house looks like from the air," she said to me five years ago when I took her on her first -- and only -- ride in a small airplane.

dual37v.jpg


It was a Piper Warrior, which -- as you probably know -- requires you to get up on a wing to get in. She couldn't get up on a wing, so she just sort of leaned against it and started rolling herself up. "I'm not going to miss this, " she said.

And so we flew -- and I realize many of you have heard this story -- and she told me how she wanted to be like Amelia Earhart.

"Fly the plane, Amelia," I said.

smileyflyer.jpg


We landed in a small town, and sat on a bench overlooking the prairie for a half hour or so, she went back to her childhood, on the farm in Ohio.

I'd give anything to give her a ride in the plane I built, the one that's numbered in her honor, and grant her that wish to see her house from the air, and maybe be Amelia Earhart one more time.

But, of course, the RV isn't built for giving rides to elderly people who have a hard time moving, and who probably -- well, really there's no probably about it -- couldn't lift themselves OUT of a seat.

Still, although I'm out of ideas, I have to give it one more try to see if anyone has ever developed a contraption or method of doing this.

Or, are there enough RVers near Fitchburg, Massachusetts who could figure out a way to lift her in?
 
Many decades ago when I was an airport rat at Boca Raton there was a guy that had an Ercoupe. He was a paraplegic from a car accident. He had a small electric chain hoist suspended from the hangar truss. He had a sling attached to the chain. He' slide out of his chair into the sling and hoist himself up. Then we would move the plane under him and he would lower himself into the cockpit. We'd pull the plane out of the hangar, point him in the right direction, and off he'd go!!

Perhaps someone could rig up a temporary lift like that so your mother could be lifted high enough to be lowered into your plane...
 
It can be done!

You may have to have assistance but if she is willing and has the desire for a one time event you can do it - I have done it. Your mother appears to be on the heavy side and that is a factor, along with strength, stability, control and vulnerability to fall injury. If you think it out ahead in great detail with the logistics involved you can come up with a safe plan and make it work, think stools, step ladders, platforms, jacks, hoists, harness, multiple manpower, safety devices, etc. Getting out is harder than getting in but it can be done.

Bob Axsom
 
Hoyer lift

Bob, google search for a Hoyer Lift. Kris worked at a nursing home and they had several people who require assistance getting into and out of bed or the bath. They used a Hoyer lift, but you could fab something from a engine hoist. just leave the sling under her while in the plane
 
Similar inquiries have come up over the years and I admire the desire to share the RV with someone very special.

My biggest concern is how to quickly extricate someone who lacks mobility in case of emergency, and without the help of assistants. Part of our preflight briefing pertains to the operation of canopy latches, etc so the passenger can quickly exit the plane. Guess we have to suspend those priorities in the instances under discussion....

Bob, I hope some way is found to safely share your plane with your mother. That window of opportunity has closed for me.........
 
You may be surprised at how well she might get up and in there. Although a far different aircraft, I owned and flew a Cherokee 140 for years while married to a paraplegic wife. She could transfer to the wing, scoot up the wing and into the seat with no big difficulty. The biggest obstacle was me getting her wheelchair into the back seat and getting ME into the left seat. We done this often, it did not even seem like a big deal to either of us.
 
same issue here

I've thought of this with my parents in their mid 80s. I'd dearly love to take them out in my RV. I think I could probably get either of them IN, but I think getting them back out would be quite a challenge - especially the part about getting from butt-on-seat to feet-on-seat. I think it would take some sort of sling from the hangar trusses to get it done. It would be quite a production, but I suppose it could be done.
 
Repelling Harness

I too would like to solve this same issue in the next 9 months or so. I recall seeing a post somewhere (maybe here on VAF) where somebody used a repelling harness attached to a cable hoist in their hangar to insert and remove an elderly man from an RV 6A or 7A. The man just kept the harness on while in the plane.
 
How is her arm strength? Can she get into the plane, do you think? I would think that getting out would be the hard part.

I wish I were an artist or I'd draw this out, but if you have a hangar space you can use, you might be able to use something like a ski tow rope thrown over a beam in the hangar with the handle dangling over her seat. Set at the proper height, she might be able to pull and wiggle herself up enough to the point where she can stand erect in the seat. Getting out of the plane, from there is just a slow motion reverse of getting into the plane.
 
Try googling 'lifting slings elderly'. Lots of ideas and possibilities there. Would loved to have had the opportunity with my own parents, but sadly they are long gone.

Clive Whittfield
Auckland
New Zealand
 
If I may add one word of caution. If your mom trys to get in the plane and she need help, be aware that if there is too much weight rear of the main spar with say a helper the plane can tip on the empenage and damage the rudder. My advice would be to have somone at the nose of the plane ready to hold the nose down in case the plane tries to tips backwards. I once damage the rudder of my 6 A when two of us were getting out of the plane at the same time and there was only a small amount of fuel in the tanks and a loaded baggage compartment hence a rear C of G condition.
Hope your mom can make the flight and am sure she will enjoy it.
Barry
 
http://www.phc-online.com/Lift_Slings_s/48.htm

Engine hoist is too low to lift someone into the airplane. Blocks and sheet (pulley and rope) inside hangar works better. Keep the tail tiedown ring on may avoid rudder damage.

Hope you will be able to find a solution and share the joy with your mom. My 80 some year old mom is coming to visit and I intend to give her a ride too.
 
Hauling the infirm and elderly via RV

I regularly fly my wife from Peachtree City, Ga to North Little Rock for cancer treatments at UAMS. Deb has 7 fractured vertebrae, six of which have been repaired. <see www.debdarley.blogspot.com>

I have also hauled some elderly riders in their eighties.

I fly my 6A slider or the RV-10 normally. Flaps down.

>Carpets/floor: Getting in is not so hard. I use a small stool first. Then a short work platform that gets them up at rear-wing height.

>Getting out is the issue.The flat sitting position of the 6A has folks pushing with their feet trying to help raise their body up so they can get out. I have insulation and carpet on the floor. Double sided tape would not hold the carpet, so I rigged four screws with washers to hold the carpet steady so it would allow the pax to exit using their feet to help push them up the back of the seat to
sitting on the crossbar behind the seats. Stand up facing forward on the cushion. Then step out facing forward. Two ground helpers , one in front of the wing, one behind, help.

I have a slider with the handles up above on the rollover bar. The handles
really help those with some upper body strength. Otherwise, I put a box or something in the pilot seat so the pax can push up with their left hand and put their right hand on the side rail. They have to get their butt up onto the crossbar behind the seat.

In the ten, it took about 8 men to help get Deb in for our first trip out west. I carried the stool and platform with us. Pix are on the blog.

When Deb and I first started flights to Arkansas, I considered leaving the right seat out and making a slide in stretcher board with head forward, feet to the rear. Fortunately, surgery made that unnecessary.

Cautions about not grabbing the canopy and other delicate parts are always repeated.
 
Go for it.

You'll enjoy the memory instead of saying, I wish I had done that.

I took a young man who had lost the use of his legs for a flight in a Challenger ultra-light a few years ago. We came up with a workable plan to get him in and out of the aircraft. It turned out to be not that difficult and it was a very rewarding experience for both of us.

A side bar to that flight: It was in the winter and he commented on how warm it seemed inside the plane. I said " yeah, my feet get a bit cold now and then" he answered "I guess it's better if you cant feel them". I stopped complaining. :eek:
 
Yes, I agree that getting out is a significant challenge, at least insomuch as getting back up to longeron level.

Of course, the challenge here is that I have no hangar since she's lives 900 -1200 miles away from me at KFIT. And I don't know if there are hangars there with RV's in them with a joist to sling stuff over.

I could probably make steps and a ramp to get up to and onto the wing, and maybe another step to get over the the skin and get her feet onto the seat, but then it all goes to pot from there.

That's why I think this sling idea or a seat that can be hoisted up and over makes some sense; and then when she needs to get out we hoist the seat right out.

My nephew, who lives with her, has a tree service and has a bucket truck. I wonder if we can fashion something that can connect to that and he can lift the bucket up and over and drop her in?

Also, in terms of an emergency exit, yes, I realize the egress problem in such a situation. I'll have to think about that some more .
 
If she still has some strength & mobility, & you have 2 strong backs available, how about the sling idea but with the lifting done with a strong bar held on each side of the cockpit by the 2 strong guys (or ladies). As has been mentioned, the toughest part is getting vertical again while still in the plane. Just make sure the lift point in the middle of the bar is fixed (so the lift strap can't slide to the side). Once she is standing upright on the seat, the rest of the exit should go just like the entry.

Charlie
 
RV-4s are easy on elderly!!

LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
I know I'm asking to do the impossible, but I have to give a try anyway.

My mother is 90 years old, doesn't move so well anymore, and -- let's face it -- we're running out of time.

I'm hoping to take N614EF back to Fitchburg, Massachusetts sometime after Oshkosh. Showing it to her would probably be good enough, but if I had one wish right now, it would be to figure out how to get a 90 year old woman who doesn't move so well in and out of an RV.

"I'd love to see what my house looks like from the air," she said to me five years ago when I took her on her first -- and only

But, of course, the RV isn't built for giving rides to elderly people who have a hard time moving, and who probably -- well, really there's no probably about it -- couldn't lift themselves OUT of a seat.

Still, although I'm out of ideas, I have to give it one more try to see if anyone has ever developed a contraption or method of doing this.

Or, are there enough RVers near Fitchburg, Massachusetts who could figure out a way to lift her in?
Click to expand...

I would take my Dad flying in my -4 right up until when he died at age 95. He had very weak ankles resulting from breaking both after falling off a boxcar when he worked for the railroad. I had two small steps for him to get on the wing. Then he had the use of that wonderful ROLLBAR to assist him with entry & exit. A -6 or -7 was to difficult for him. I'M TELLING YA, a -4 is easy entry for elderly if they any upper body strength. The -8 should be easier also. We put assist bars in bathrooms...the -4s and -8s have them in the rollbar. I'll be 68 here soon. The -4 is much easier for me than a -6A.

Just think about it & look at photos of the planes. The -8A is going to be more difficult than the -8.

My Dad loved flying with me!!

Good luck,
 
Bob,

I'm sorry I left out, "...get a trusted friend to give her a ride in a -4 or -8..."

My Mom will be 101 next month. I could get her in my 4 fairly easy but she doesn't want to go flying. I put her in a Ford pickup every day.

Best regards & luck to you,
 
Put something under the aft fuselage

As mentioned earlier on the A's it is easy to smack the tail down. I would consider putting something under the aft fuselage if you go the multiple person help method. I also had to repair the rudder after such an incident.

Bob Axsom
 
My thought is to make a set of stairs with a platform just above the wing height. You could make it at home and take it apart for travel, screw it together when you get there. If you are short of room traveling there, ship the parts or build the prototype at your place, work out the details and you could quickly build a new one at your mothers place. A cordless drill and skilsaw would be all you need.

If that sounds like something you want and need a drawing, let me know and I will put something together. I wish I had the chance to give my mother a ride and if you have the chance, take it.
 
It's difficult... not impossible

Mr. Collins:

"Impossible" is a barrier you put up... and didn't need to.

Difficult? Sure, but others have done this, AND you have great motivation.

Remember, you just finished BUILDING AN AIRPLANE!!!! Put your experience, resourcefulness, and stubbornness to work, again, and give your mother another opportunity to tell you how proud she is.
 
If you used a sling

Just some thoughts, if you used a sling keep the seat a felxible canvas like material, that can be disconnected from the sling, so your mum might be lowered into your plan, disconnect the sling seat, and just buckle your mum in on top of the sling seat. When you land reconnect the sling to the seat and lift your mum out. That's if she would be comfortable using a sling.

Make sure the link to the seat from the 'sling' aren't chains, chains might pinch you mums skin.
 
Could you elaborate about the risk? (rope break?)
Click to expand...

Rope was new climbing rope from REI, so that was ok.

We used a carabiner at the top in lieu of a pulley, that was ok for single use.

A strong electric boat winch was used for muscle, don't underestimate the difficulty of controlling the hanging load.

I would add an upper body to rope strap, to prevent the person in the harness from going inverted. (notice hands on rope)

The process was to hoist the person relatively high into the hangar, then position the plane under the person. It is unnerving to suspend someone that high above a concrete floor...

Use appropriate knots.
 
Getting Your Mom in your RV

Hi Bob

I don't know how big the airport you're going to is but at small airport you might ask the Fire department for help or advise...

They know how to get peoples out of anything and I'm sure they know how to reverse the process..

Worth asking anyway..

My Mom passed away a month ago before I had the chance to take her up in my RV...

Don't miss the opportunity, it may not come back

Good luck

Bruno Dionne
[email protected]
 
Climbing harness

I vote for the climbing harness. You obviously will need access to a hangar. The set-up shown with the caribiner had no mechanical advantage. You would be better off with something like this.

A chest harness can be fashioned from a length of flat webbing so there's no chance of her tipping back. Hoist her up, roll the airplane under her and lower her in - an electric winch would be handy. Leave the hardware on her - it's not that bulky.

Good luck - your mom looks like a sport... that's all it should take.
 
87yrs Young

I took my mom for a flight in my new RV-6 several months ago. It is something that she and I have wanted to do for a long time. She is 87 years young but still mobile. I used step stools to get her up on the wing, showed her how to enter the cockpit and even though it wasn't easy she managed to do it because she REALLY wanted a ride in an airplane I built. She was motivated like your mother sounds. Again, our paths are parallel.

She trusted me and my building skills. (OK she thinks that the fact that a FAA DAR representative inspected meant something.... :))

Take her anyway you can. It will be an experience for her and a wonderful memory for you. Heck, my kids and grand kids are still amazed that "Granny" went for an airplane ride with me. Shared via Facebook.

2vtns6u.jpg
 
My mother (82 years old) insists that I not finish the plane until she has passed! She's convinced that all "experimental" aircraft are death traps. She is also convinced they are dropping out of the sky on a weekly basis in the Phoenix area. I have noticed, however, that she still asks about my progress and loves to hear reports of trips my wife and I take in the Cherokee. :)

I hope you get the chance to take your mother for that ride.
 
I had the privilege of taking my good friend Dave up in my RV less than a month before he passed from ALS.

At the time he was in a wheelchair full time and didn't have much control of his body. I ended up making a bracket on the ceiling and used a construction type full harness. We used a come-a-long to ratchet him up. (An electric winch of somekind would have been easier.) We lifted him up then diagonally moved the plane underneath him. (It's challenging with a tip up canopy.) Ditto the comments about the plane being tipsy. When we were lowering him down into the seat, if we both stood on the steps or aft wing at the same time the airplane tipped back. Fortunately we figured that out quickly. We had a spectacular flight up to the San Juans.

Not an easy task but definatley worth the reward for both of us. Man I miss that guy.

sanjuans.jpg
 
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