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Has anybody Sikaflex'd a RV-6 Slider?

Pittsartist

Well Known Member
I'm beginning to consider how to tackle my canopy fit and I quite like the idea of using Sikaflex as opposed to riveting.

I've done a bit of a search on old threads and I can find loads of stuff for other models - but nothing on the "Slider" '6

Has this been done before ?. Good Idea ? (or not ?) can anyone point me at more info for the '6 ?.
 
I glued my 7 slider. I can't see how they would be significantly different. I would glue again too, no drilling for me.
 
I plan to glue mine also. The canopy parts are the same as the -7, so there is no reason you can't do it on the -6.
 
I'm beginning to consider how to tackle my canopy fit and I quite like the idea of using Sikaflex as opposed to riveting.

I've done a bit of a search on old threads and I can find loads of stuff for other models - but nothing on the "Slider" '6

Has this been done before ?. Good Idea ? (or not ?) can anyone point me at more info for the '6 ?.

I did it on -6A slider, and I'm extremely pleased with it. The only hole I drilled was for the canopy latch - everything else got Sika'd. I even Sika'd the composite rear skirts to the canopy. Very happy with how it all turned out.

Virtual Hanger post
 
For those of you that removed the powdercoating before glueing, how did you get the powdercoat off? I would like to leave it on the lower side rails where the fairings attach, but remove it from the bows where the plexi is attached.

Thanks,
 
I just roughed it up also for the sika, but I did remove a lot of the powder from other parts. I found the best method for me was to rough up the powder coat, then apply a chemical paint stripper, then use a wire brush on a bench grinder or angle grinder. Worked better than blasting for me.
 
For those of you that removed the powdercoating before glueing, how did you get the powdercoat off? I would like to leave it on the lower side rails where the fairings attach, but remove it from the bows where the plexi is attached.

Thanks,

I used a chemical stripper + wire brush to take all the powder coating off the canopy bow and roll bar, then primed & painted it flat black. I left a strip of bare metal for the sika metal primer.
 
Food For thought

A few days ago I had a nasty surprise when a 20inch crack suddenly appeared right over my head in my slider after a cold weather flight. I am going to try to repair the crack with adhesive, but if that fix fails a replacement canopy will need to be fabricated. How does one remove the plexi when glued onto the frame?
 
Heat gun and thin scraper. It's a two person job, hold the frame down reasonably firmly and don't be in too much of a hurry. Probably easier if you break away the bulk of the acrylic before starting with the heat.

Clive Whittfield
Auckland
New Zealand
 
A few days ago I had a nasty surprise when a 20inch crack suddenly appeared right over my head in my slider after a cold weather flight. I am going to try to repair the crack with adhesive, but if that fix fails a replacement canopy will need to be fabricated. How does one remove the plexi when glued onto the frame?

Razor blade. Took me 10 minutes. Easy. After that, used razor blades to trim off the excess remaining Sika from the frame. That took longer but it was still easy. Toss the blades when they seem dull. New Sika adheres tenaciously to the old.
 
Sikaflex canopy

I did my 6A slider 2yrs ago and have no problems. Would do it again.
I masked the area either side of the frame rails, applied primer after scuffing area lightly. Apply sikaflex and set frame into canopy, clamp lightly as needed.
Remove excess on both sides of rails with curved wood tool. Ensure your frame
is tweaked as needed to slide freely before you start process.
Walt
RV-6A
 
SIKA RULES!!

Coarse sandpaper for the powder coat, prime, glue and clamp. 50 hours on my 6A and no issues! My drilled and riveted 8 canopy had to replaced at 200 hours. It was replaced with a Todd's canopy. It was SIKAed and is still flying without issue. There is no other way to attach the canopy IMHO.
 
A few days ago I had a nasty surprise when a 20inch crack suddenly appeared right over my head in my slider after a cold weather flight. I am going to try to repair the crack with adhesive, but if that fix fails a replacement canopy will need to be fabricated. How does one remove the plexi when glued onto the frame?

Was yours screwed or Sika'd on?
 
Here's where I've got to - That canopy's getting bigger all the time !

Serious question - does Sika have shelf life ? (unopened)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/115470196@N06/

Yes it does have a shelf life. Google the part number and you will find technical specs on the sika site. I think I saw a year - - - I am not (yet) using it for my canopy. I am screwed up, literally, for the canopy anyway. If it cracks I will go Sika.

Question, I looked at your site and see your bird is sitting on its gear. How wide are the outside of the wheel nuts? I wonder if I will get it out of my basement while on the gear. Thanks,
 
Yes it does have a shelf life. Google the part number and you will find technical specs on the sika site. I think I saw a year - - - I am not (yet) using it for my canopy. I am screwed up, literally, for the canopy anyway. If it cracks I will go Sika.

Question, I looked at your site and see your bird is sitting on its gear. How wide are the outside of the wheel nuts? I wonder if I will get it out of my basement while on the gear. Thanks,

I've taken the engine and mount back off again to rivet the cowl hinges on so can't measure at the moment. The garage door and the cut lines in the concrete are 10' in the photos if that helps ?
 
A few days ago I had a nasty surprise when a 20inch crack suddenly appeared right over my head in my slider after a cold weather flight. I am going to try to repair the crack with adhesive, but if that fix fails a replacement canopy will need to be fabricated. How does one remove the plexi when glued onto the frame?

In January 2010 you stated on VansAirforce that you had used "Goof Off" on your canopy to remove paint overspray "with no ill effects".

It may be possible that the Goof Off contained a solvent that weakened the acrylic on your canopy even though you did not know it at the time.

In reality there are very few chemicals that you can safely use on acrylic to wash/clean it without damaging it at the molecular level.

If you have applied a solvent based cleaner to your canopy previously then it may well be that your canopy would have cracked regardless of whether it was held on by Sikaflex or by fasteners.
 
Hybrid?

Has anyone tried a ?hybrid? method? Rivet the sides and glue the top. It seem to me the top is where most of the problems will be (clearance between the frame and canopy and possibly movement) and side is where the strength could really come in.

Thoughts?
 
I just recently finished the slider portion. I haven't done the windshield yet. Using the sika on the slider was actually really easy. It went way better than I expected, no where near the mess as building the tanks. I didn't get even a speck on my clothes. I went through a lot of gloves and paper towels, but that was it. Just be sure to invest in the 3M fine line tape, it it way better than even the best paper masking tape. I used no fasteners of any kind. The only hole I drilled was for the latch. I used just under two tubes, but the curve of the spine of the frame wasn't even close to the canopy so I have a very thick section in that area. Plus I made pretty wide fillets all around. Ill probably need a forth tube for the skirts. Well.see how the windshield goes.
 
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I just recently finished the slider portion. I haven't done the windshield yet. Using the sika on the slider was actually really easy. It went way better than I expected, no where near the mess as building the tanks. I didn't get even a speck on my clothes. I went through a lot of gloves and paper towels, but that was it. Just be sure to invest in the 3M fine line tape, it it way better than even the best paper masking tape. I used no fasteners of any kind. The only hole I drilled was for the latch. I used just under two tubes, but the curve of the sline of the fram wasn't even close to the canopy so I have a very thick section in that area. Plus I made pretty wide fillets all around. Ill probably need a forth tupe for the skirts. Well.see how the windshield goes.

This mirrors my experiences exactly. the only things I'd add are that I did mine in 2 stages - a "rough" bead just to hold the thing in place then a cosmetic stage the next day to make it look nice.

My only real problem was that after the 1st stage I managed to get the fineline tape trapped in a few places under the initial layer of sika - a real PITA to get out.


Pics
http://www.flickr.com/photos/115470196@N06/

I compressed the frame by 12mm as it dried - the "springback" was about half this (so the frame at the rear was narrowed by 6mm (1/4").
 
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My only real problem was that after the 1st stage I managed to get the fineline tape trapped in a few places under the initial layer of sika - a real PITA to get out.

What I did to prevent getting the tape trapped: I took a razor blade and dulled&smoothed it using a durburring wheel so that it wasn't sharp anymore. I ran the thin but dull edge through the Sika using the tape edge as a guide. Just in those places I was worried it may get trapped. This cut the wet sika and made it easy to pull the tape later. The blade was not sharp enough to scratch the plexy without a good amount of force.

As an update, here are some pictures of the finished slider. Not perfect, but I am happy.

FP30072014A00014.jpg


FP30072014A00011.jpg


FP30072014A00012.jpg
 
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What I did to prevent getting the tape trapped: I took a razor blade and dulled&smoothed it using a durburring wheel so that it wasn't sharp anymore. I ran the thin but dull edge through the Sika using the tape edge as a guide. Just in those places I was worried it may get trapped. This cut the wet sika and made it easy to pull the tape later. The blade was not sharp enough to scratch the plexy without a good amount of force.

As an update, here are some pictures of the finished slider. Not perfect, but I am happy.

FP30072014A00014.jpg


FP30072014A00011.jpg


FP30072014A00012.jpg

Gotta hand it to you tackling black sika on a white frame. Mine was black on a black frame and I still found it almost impossible to get the masking perfect.

Well done :D
 
It was more laziness. I was going to paint the frame to match my interior, but didn't want to go through all the trouble of making another temp paint booth.....
 
I'd sure be curious to read a response from the original poster. I agree that Goof-Off probably was not a good idea. Was it applied in the area that cracked?





In January 2010 you stated on VansAirforce that you had used "Goof Off" on your canopy to remove paint overspray "with no ill effects".

It may be possible that the Goof Off contained a solvent that weakened the acrylic on your canopy even though you did not know it at the time.

In reality there are very few chemicals that you can safely use on acrylic to wash/clean it without damaging it at the molecular level.

If you have applied a solvent based cleaner to your canopy previously then it may well be that your canopy would have cracked regardless of whether it was held on by Sikaflex or by fasteners.
 
A couple more thoughts / ideas on this

I've pretty much got my slider canopy finished now - got to say I'm delighted on how it turned out.

For what it's worth here's a few things that worked well for me in getting around some of the snags that can crop up.

1) Problem - I struggled to get the canopy side skits to lay flat on the fuz side.

Solution - I Sikaflexed the skirts to bottom edge of the plexi and the lower canopy frame rail underside edge only at first.

Once this had dried it formed a "hinge" that I could use to hold the skirt in the correct place against the plexi and canopy frame but at the same time allowing me to force the lower edge of the skirt down against the fuz.

I then put a bead of sika along the top edge of the frame, used the above to force the edge down before it set and hey presto, once set it holds against the side perfectly.

2) Problem - The lower front edge of the side skirt scraped along the top side deck of the fuz as the canopy slides back

Solution - I cut some 1" wide strips of 30 thou aluminium and shimmed up the slider track along the rear half of its length. As the canopy moves from open to closed it lowers along the track by 60 thou (2 shims) and the canopy skirt moves down just enough to cover the gap where the notch is at the front edge

3) Problem - Getting a seal around the 2 halves of the canopy between the "bows"

Solution - When I smeared the sika in to bond to the frame it left a nice 1/2 round depression. I bought some 1/4" closed cell soft neoprene round extrusion and found that it fits perfectly into this recess. Glued in with thick Cyno it makes for a perfect seal (Not yet flight tested though mind). I've therefore not bothered with the external cap strip at all.
 
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What type of Sitka is everyone using?

I am new to the site and I just purchased a RV-6a kit under construction. I am trying to wrap my head around the canopy install.

I looked on Sika's website and there are several types of Sikaflex Polyurethane sealants listed. Which one is being used?

Sika's website

I also have been reviewing the different posts and I was wondering, did you remove the tape while the Sika was still very wet? I heard talk of some having trouble with the tape being stuck underneath and I just wanted to ask. Is this material that viscous even when wet that it causes issues with tape removal?
 
I am new to the site and I just purchased a RV-6a kit under construction. I am trying to wrap my head around the canopy install.

I looked on Sika's website and there are several types of Sikaflex Polyurethane sealants listed. Which one is being used?

Sika's website

I also have been reviewing the different posts and I was wondering, did you remove the tape while the Sika was still very wet? I heard talk of some having trouble with the tape being stuck underneath and I just wanted to ask. Is this material that viscous even when wet that it causes issues with tape removal?

the Sika I used was 295 UV (black - but it''s also available in white apparently)

theres a matching pre cleaner and primer that should be used as well.

Tape is only a problem after its set (about 12hrs)
 
Just an updated status on my install. The windshield is done (at least the Sika part). It was much more of a PITA than the slider. The space between the panel and roll-bar is less than the length of a cauling gun with a full tube. The angles are much harder to work in, just bad geometry for the hands to make a smooth fillet. I did find that wet-sanding cured sika with 400 grit produced a very nice even matte finish and fixed any rough fillets. It is also a good way to remove overlaps at the tape line. I used no mechanical fasteners through the windshield, just a few clips around the edges to keep everything aligned.

I did find one problem. I was having a much harder time getting the right side to fit the fuselage compared to the left. It was then I realized that the right side of my canopy is a good 30% thicker than the left side and much less willing to flex the little I needed to get it in place.

FP01092014A0003P.jpg


FP01092014A0003Q.jpg
 
Looking good Colin !

Mine looks to be pretty much exactly the same - I made a nice seal from 10mm round section soft neoprene (off ebay) that glues on top of the sika on the windscreen side. When the slider is latched (the latch has enough force to compress the seal) it seems to seal perfectly so I'm going to do away with the external cover strip.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/115470196@N06/15117462972/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/115470196@N06/15094840096/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/115470196@N06/15094855716/in/photostream/

That's the theory at least, not flight tested yet.

I'm going to try a little wet sanding "tidy up" on my rough sika patches based on what you say.
 
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Your project looks great. I was thinking along the same lines for the seal. I plan to keep the cover strip though. The black roll bar and fram look really nice. I should have gone that direction myself.
 
Now it's finished and flying (6 hours so far) I thought I'd post a "finished" picture or two.

16608355967_25a72a83ce_s.jpg
[/url]IMG_0068 by [email protected], on Flickr[/IMG]

16814548952_f77e19d75a_s.jpg
[/url]IMG_0067 by [email protected], on Flickr[/IMG]

Nothing's fallen off (yet) and the seal's pretty good.

This being said I'm just toying with fitting some brush seals on the side of the fuz to seal against the canopy skirt. the current gap's only about 1/16" - but it's cold here in March !

If I ever did it again I'd probably tack sika the canopy in one piece then make the "big cut" in situ - before finishing with "fillet" sika later.

One other thing perhaps worth mentioning - I've shimmed the slider rails up about 1/8" starting from about 6" behind the roll over bar. This way the canopy raises a little as it slides back and you can make the side skirts a tighter fit without them rubbing on the fuz deck as you open the canopy. When it closes it goes forward higher up and then drops an 1/8 in the last few inches.
 
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This being said I'm just toying with fitting some brush seals on the side of the fuz to seal against the canopy skirt. the current gap's only about 1/16" - but it's cold here in March !

I used 1/16" thick x 3/4" wide adhesive-backed felt from McMaster-Carr. It gets quite cold here, too :)
 
Pittsartist,

How do you like the black color on the roll bar forward brace? I am doing my roll bar and canopy frame black but was not sure how obtrusive the black on the forward brace would be. Did you put a different color on the side that is visible from the cockpit?

Paul
 
Pittsartist,

How do you like the black color on the roll bar forward brace? I am doing my roll bar and canopy frame black but was not sure how obtrusive the black on the forward brace would be. Did you put a different color on the side that is visible from the cockpit?

Paul

Black's fine for me - It's actually a black epoxy etch primer that's slightly "satin" in finish similar to the Sika (so its less critical to have perfect sika lines).

I also thought the Sika would bond better to satin and that a "1 coat" paint system would have less chance of peeling under stress

Finally, I'd hoped that there was less chance of a reflection in the wind shield from the support than with say white or cream.

All good so far after about 80 hours flying.

https://vimeo.com/142061184

(you can see that I'd also struggled with smoothing the internal fillet at the base of the windscreen)
 
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Pittsartist,

Did you prep your steel by removing the powder coat first? My powder coat has rust indications coming through. I am going to strip the powder coat and start over.
 
Pittsartist,

Did you prep your steel by removing the powder coat first? My powder coat has rust indications coming through. I am going to strip the powder coat and start over.

My steelwork was bare on arrival in the kit (which had stood for 16 years before I started). I prepped with 230 grit wet and dry, cleaned with acetone and then primed within the hour. From memory I think the primer was lechler branded - It has virtually welded itself on, very chip resistant :)

Cheers,

Richard
 
Pittartist,

Just taking it to the end. After priming with the black primer, you applied the Sika cleaner, primer and then adhesive. Did you put a top coat on the frame that was not covered by the Sika?
 
Pittsartist,

Disregard my previous post. I was reading from my phone. Once I got to a computer and reread all of the posts I realized you have answered my questions already. Sorry.
 
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