It seems to me that if I hold my RV-7 (180 HP const speed prop) just off the runway eventually I have to increase the pitch enough that I think the tailwheel hits first and I get a little "hop" before it settles on the runway. No big bounce, but when I first touch I'm not staying on the ground either. Any hints to be better?
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Landing attitude in a RV-7
- Thread starter cmarbach
- Start date
hydroguy2
Well Known Member
my landing attitude was excellent today....oh the actual landings were good too. I'm slowly getting the hang of it and flying final a bit slower seems to be helping.
I've flown 4 of the last 6 days which definitely helps my attitude.
Back to work tomorrow and my attitude will drop.
I've flown 4 of the last 6 days which definitely helps my attitude.
Back to work tomorrow and my attitude will drop.power in the flare
I do the same as SMO: keep alittle power in the flare.
Without it, the c/s prop makes the -7 drop out of the sky when power is reduced to idle.
Then, when the wheels touch (aiming for all three at the same time), I retard to idle and pull the stick full aft.
I operate of out short fields (4-500 meters) quite often, so I land everytime as I was landing on a short field.
That means 65 KIAS on final, and 55 KIAS approaching the flare.
(middle weight + no wind)
That will give me touchdown a few knots above stall so I then avoid dropping onto the ground in a stalled attitude.
That way, the mains and the TW hits at the same time, avoiding the "hop"
In crosswind, it's ofcourse a different story because of crab and the added speed.
When the last main has touched, I then "fly" the TW to the ground (if it's still in the air) because the plane still have some excess speed.
If I instead pull the stick back suddenly, then I get airborne again.... not good....
BTW; rolling out on final, I first set the nose in the correct attitude, then control the speed with pitch and glidepath (aiming for 3 degrees) with throttle.
Works great for me.
This is the way I do it to avoid landing TW first and I'm sure other will chime in because there's alot of experience out there.
I'm standing by for other techniques....
I do the same as SMO: keep alittle power in the flare.
Without it, the c/s prop makes the -7 drop out of the sky when power is reduced to idle.
Then, when the wheels touch (aiming for all three at the same time), I retard to idle and pull the stick full aft.
I operate of out short fields (4-500 meters) quite often, so I land everytime as I was landing on a short field.
That means 65 KIAS on final, and 55 KIAS approaching the flare.
(middle weight + no wind)
That will give me touchdown a few knots above stall so I then avoid dropping onto the ground in a stalled attitude.
That way, the mains and the TW hits at the same time, avoiding the "hop"
In crosswind, it's ofcourse a different story because of crab and the added speed.
When the last main has touched, I then "fly" the TW to the ground (if it's still in the air) because the plane still have some excess speed.
If I instead pull the stick back suddenly, then I get airborne again.... not good....
BTW; rolling out on final, I first set the nose in the correct attitude, then control the speed with pitch and glidepath (aiming for 3 degrees) with throttle.
Works great for me.
This is the way I do it to avoid landing TW first and I'm sure other will chime in because there's alot of experience out there.
I'm standing by for other techniques....
Last edited:
pierre smith
Well Known Member
Take a good look.
If you'll stop on the runway, ready for take-off and take a very close look at EXACTLY where the distant end of the runway intersects your cowl and burn that view into your mind, you'll remember what the three-point flare/landing has to look like.
On your next flare/landing, try to duplicate the exact same attitude, with practise, you'll get closer and closer to touching all three wheels at the same time....easier said than done, BTW
Best,
If you'll stop on the runway, ready for take-off and take a very close look at EXACTLY where the distant end of the runway intersects your cowl and burn that view into your mind, you'll remember what the three-point flare/landing has to look like.
On your next flare/landing, try to duplicate the exact same attitude, with practise, you'll get closer and closer to touching all three wheels at the same time....easier said than done, BTW
Best,
If you want to "pin" your airplane to the runway after touchdown, pull up your flaps when you get all three wheels down. You'll have less aerodynamic drag, so be ready for a longer rollout, but it does prevent "hopping". At least, it does with manual flaps... Electric may not retract fast enough.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
Your stall angle in ground effect is greater than your 3 point angle on all the ground. Just accept it or change your hold it off technique a little.
The solution is fly it on more and DON'T hold it off, aka "Wheel Landing". Some tail draggers that was the ONLY recommend way to land.
Yes you should land near stall, but with such a slick and low stall aircraft like the RV it's hard to three point it with short main gears, unless you fly it on a little. Have you done any two pointers? Have you flown it on with the tail up? Try it for a touch and go. Clearly this is a faster landing, and a better techqnique for windy conditions.
Some where beteen a hold it off tail wheel plop and two point is the three point in the RV. Some times a dab of power gets it. It's hard to do it consistantly. In the RV-4 with passenger and bags you tend to carry power and keep the tail up to avoid the tail wheel plop landing.
With the higher speed wheel landing (not a lot higher), if you bounce you might go flying again... avoid PIO (pilot induced oscillation).. either let it settle for a small hop, add power to stabilize and try again (runway permitting), or add power and go around. Again if the bounce is big add power and go around. Flying it on is fun.
With your technique you will almost always hit the tail wheel first. Also your technique is not a good idea in gusts, cross winds, you need a little airspeed for control authority, fwd slip for cross wind, a little power even .... Not every landing needs to be short or near stall. On the other hand landing too fast is recipe for something to bad happen and it to get out of control fast.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
That's what I did. Small bounce, followed by a slightly more bounce. I figured that would be the end of it. But then it was followed by a bigger bounce, in a nose low attitude, at a very slow speed. This bounce seemed to be from the landing gear.
Oh...............this was a nose wheeler, but was converted to a non-nose wheel in a few seconds. Shorter C/S prop..............too!
Other than that, I'm reading this "how to land" thread with interest. If I re-build, it will become a tail dragger. And that's because.............I hate doing things twice.
Note: I'd always power out of a big bounce, and have done it once. This was just a small bounce, probably from touching down too quick.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
SkywayCaptain
Active Member
The "RV Hop" is due to the tailwheel hitting first and then lowering the nose before the mains hit. The mains bounce back into the air below flying speed. Pulling back on the stick right after touchdown sometimes makes this worse. I like to land with the tailwheel about and inch or two high and allow the pitch attitude to lower just slightly after touchdown. This is the same as a "wheel landing" but with a lower speed (higher attitude). This makes for a greaser if done right and doesn't increase your landing distance to speak of, but requires a little more work than simply "letting it land" in the 3 point attitude. You may (will) have to push forward just a bit on touchdown if the runway is smooth esp. if you have a passenger (more aft CG). If you do bounce, it's too late... don't push forward on the stick, add power, better luck next time I used a similar technique when I flew Beech 18's. Some 18's would stall before you could get to the 3 point attitude esp. when empty (forward CG). Attempting a full 3 point landing in those conditions made for moderate excitement
Let me know when you guys figure out how to get perfect landings 100% of the time. I would like to know how to do this
I used a similar technique when I flew Beech 18's. Some 18's would stall before you could get to the 3 point attitude esp. when empty (forward CG). Attempting a full 3 point landing in those conditions made for moderate excitement Let me know when you guys figure out how to get perfect landings 100% of the time. I would like to know how to do this
If you have a c/s prop - particularly the MT prop - consider leaving it a little way out on approach.
You do not have to have the prop fully fine to ensure adequate go round performance - just balance the performance needed.
Think about this - if you have a fixed pitch prop, you will land in full coarse......
The fine stop on most c/s props, especially 3 blade props give a huge amount of dynamic braking when the throttle is closed - usually too much for what is required.
So......
Either leave it set at - say 2300 on approach or leave a trickle of power to touchdown and aim for the mystical tailwheel 6"off the ground touchdown
You do not have to have the prop fully fine to ensure adequate go round performance - just balance the performance needed.
Think about this - if you have a fixed pitch prop, you will land in full coarse......
The fine stop on most c/s props, especially 3 blade props give a huge amount of dynamic braking when the throttle is closed - usually too much for what is required.
So......
Either leave it set at - say 2300 on approach or leave a trickle of power to touchdown and aim for the mystical tailwheel 6"off the ground touchdown
